WW XCVI - The Fell Winter of 2911

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

So, I wonder who and what we're dealing with here. Innocent Nogrod? Nogwolf tossing his comrade under the bus? Nogwolf cackling to himself at the initial success of his frame-up on an innocent? Discuss.

Bussing is what it looks like. On the other hand, maybe that's why it's something else. But if I had to say just based on those few posts, I'd say bussing.

Galadriel's posts today are pretty fishy. Just saying.

Originally Posted by G55

I honestly don't get what's so special about comparing the loss of a Seer on Night 2 to a savage blow.

A savage blow would have been much better than a savage blow, a really savage blow.

Originally Posted by Kath

(Aside: Ps. a message for Lommy who I know will appreciate it: you haven't seen before how looks the trumpet! <-- This was our favourite line!!)

Noooooo! last time Agan posted that I had that incredibly annoying song stuck in my head all morning and now I will have it all evening. *hits head against wall and starts to listen to Laibach*

Next up: replying to stuff from late yesterDay. There really haven't been too many posts in this game...

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Legate, bolding mine

(I'll be watching Lommy for the Menel-wagoning early on and the general "harshness", but maybe it was just the state of mind)

More like, it's how I think but normally I don't phrase stuff so bluntly.

If Galadriel is a wolf, then Sally's vote is also worth raising eyebrows at, not only Nog's.

Originally Posted by Kath

I will try to develop more of a brain for future use!

<3

[Meneltarmacil]

I'm not going to be around much today as I have a lot of real life things to do.

As such, I agree on G55; she does grasp at straws for suspicions and the voting pattern for yesterday is suspicious and implicates Sally as well.

++Galadriel55

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

More like, it's how I think but normally I don't phrase stuff so bluntly.

How nice

Originally Posted by Lommy

If Galadriel is a wolf, then Sally's vote is also worth raising eyebrows at, not only Nog's.

For sure, and like I have noted already before, they actually cross-posted at that point - so theoretically, it could even be possible for them to both be Wolves. But that is a lot of speculation already, and it all comes back to G55's role anyway.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

I was saying that wolves like to kill people that lead the village down a false trail to an innocent - any innocent (not specifically me because I'm me, just any innocent that suits them best). Other factors play a role as well, but let's not overcomplicate it. In this case, this "any innocent" happens to be me. So yes, they framed me, but not to frame me specifically, just to frame an innocent.

Is this clearer?

Not very much. I get the general concept - that much is clear to me. But now it seems you are actually saying something different again. So what you are saying now is: the WWs wanted to frame any innocent, so they killed Zil. Not because they would think he was the Seer, but to frame any innocent. And because you were suspected by him, it is you who is being framed? Do I understand it right?

EDIT: x-ed with G55

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Not very much. I get the general concept - that much is clear to me. But now it seems you are actually saying something different again. So what you are saying now is: the WWs wanted to frame any innocent, so they killed Zil. Not because they would think he was the Seer, but to frame any innocent. And because you were suspected by him, it is you who is being framed? Do I understand it right?

Yes and no, but basically yes. They saw the opportunity for a good kill - Inzil, who was not very outspoken in his opinions other than being bothered (multiple times) by me. Any kill the wolves make has a potential aim for a gifted (usually the Seer), so it would be natural to suspect the person who the killed person suspected - maybe the wolves thought Zil was a Seer who dreamed of Galwolf - regardless of whether he actually turns out to be Seer or not. So the wolves used this as an opportunity to frame me (and they would know that my position is already shaky based on the vote tally, so with this additional point against me they would be able to nicely lynch me toDay - and who could blame them, right?).

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Because he was the seer. But regardless of whether you're a wolf or not, the pack couldn't have known he was the seer. If the wolves had wanted to frame someone, they would've picked a kill that had more pronounced negative opinions than Inzil had.

Whenever there's a kill, s/he's analysed for possible Seerness even if s/he isn't a Seer. Again, what I was saying to Legate in one of the previous posts - even if a kill looks like it has been made as a no-trace or a misleading-trace kill, there's always that possibility that thw wolves saw giftedness in that person. So that person's posts are always scrunitized for possible phrases the wolves could haveinterpreted as clues - regardless of the role of the dead person.

And again, framing me is convenient because I was already suspicious "just because", the vote tally spoke against my innocence, and it's just easy to lynch me. But the main reason still remains that I'm "just any inocent".

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

maybe the wolves thought Zil was a Seer who dreamed of Galwolf - regardless of whether he actually turns out to be Seer or not. So the wolves used this as an opportunity to frame me

WHAT?

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

WHAT?

that whole paragraph was so confusing I didn't even try to understand it, but if you put it that way...

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

that whole paragraph was so confusing I didn't even try to understand it, but if you put it that way...

Wwhat way would you put it?

[satansaloser2005]

Holy crap. And then I read the last few posts by the little gal and I'm wondering why we haven't killed her already. Or possibly sent her to an asylum. Either way, redacted, because....wow.


EDIT: x'd since Gal's 127, which shows how spaced off I am at the moment

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

WHAT?

Oops! Okay, that is rather bad, to be honest. Like, I wouldn't bet just on that, but it's really rather unlikely wording indeed. I mean, after talking over a hundred times like G55 did, I can imagine one can make a slip such as this...

[Thinlómien]

Innocentish

Menel - for toDay, because he seems the most likely seer dream. Although, like I said, it's also pretty likely Zil's dream was someone he could not really comment on since they had not contirbuted that far, which would suck.

Kath - I hate to give people the benefit of doubt because they are confused, but that kind of makes sense at this phase of the game where you have to narrow down the options, not reconsider everything.


Under Rudolph

Shasta and Nerwen - both their normal sneaky selves, I keep overlooking them for some unknown reason. Thy are elusive.

Sally - if Gal is a wolf, then she's suspicious, though.

Legate - yeah. Whoever said loud people are easier to read was obviously wrong.


Suspiciousish

Glirdan - mild bad vibes.

Galadriel - pretty fishy. But she's totally right about herself taking all the attention and that being very harmful if she's not a wolf herself.

Nogrod - awfully quick to throw Galadriel to the lynch block, which could make sense regardless of her role if he was a wolf himself. Just btw I didn't like Nerwen's "others, discuss this while I sit back and relax" comment, makes me suspect something fishy between Nerwie and Noggie actually.

Aganzir - she's enjoying herself too much to be completely innocent.


...that's all? Sick. I have a bad feeling this game will be a massacre unless someone else's brain works considerably better than mine which seems to be in a totally off-ww mode.


edit: xed with Sally and Gal

[Galadriel55]

PPPS: yes, sally, you probably need to send me to an asylum.

[satansaloser2005]

All of this is being typed as I am bombarded by a dude on either side of me loudly reading books at me, so please forgive any fragmented thoughts. I’m trying.

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I guess I can see Pitch's point on Nog, and it's tempting to follow Pitch's lead there. However, I think that in the totality of circumstance, G55 looks worse.

++G55

Choose well.

Um, so....someone else has mentioned this, right? I could see “totality of circumstance” as some sort of bizarre seer hint (or not so bizarre, I suppose) that he thinks Nog is acting suspicious, but knows he is not guilty. Obviously Nog could still be the cobbler, or he could have dreamed Gal as a wolf instead (see below), or this could not even be a thing, but I feel the need to bring it up because....totality of circumstance just seems like a strange phrase to me.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Should I take it then that G55 or Pitch is a wolf and the mates are now hanging around not willing to take side hoping they will not be forced to make a move (to try and avoid a lynch of their mate if s/he's eventually lynched, or not willing to cast the first stone as there is still hope someone else will be lynched - but would hjoin the wagon if the case is lost?)?

I speak of this below, but I know of few players who would willingly help Fenris one of their own, especially given that Gal wasn’t too far in the lead yesterDay when votes started rolling in. (And yes, this does make me look far from the best, but it’s my opinion, and I don’t fear expressing it, because it’s true, so nyah.)

Originally Posted by Nogrod

From the Pitch-lynchers Sally's and my votes stand up, clearly, whereas G55's and Agan's votes are more safe. So if someone tried to save a wolf-G55, it most probably would be Sally or me (which I am not).

It would in fact make us (Nog and myself) look quite bad, but as I know Galadriel and I are not packmates, there’s nothing I can do about it. But yeah, my vote was in a very suspicious place. Meh. It happens.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

If you're debating about Inzil's dream or fellow wolves saving me yesterDay, think of this:

-knowing that I am likely to go down in the first couple Days - which he does, would Inzil have picked me as his N1 dream? He's not stupid; he knows I am a waste of dream unless I actually survive Day 1 and am suspicious enough to merit one.

-knowing that I wouldn't last anyways, and they could be placed under suspicion for that, would the mates risk saving me? It would be better for them to bus me, unless they are darned nice mates.

You do in fact have a good point about the dreams; I would not expect Dun to dream you on the first Night. However, I’m not basing my ‘what the flip are you doing, woman?’ off of potential seer dreams, but off your actions. And if you have a pack that thought they could get away with it, then yes, I think it would be beneficial for them to try to derail a Fenrissing.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Aganzir - she's enjoying herself too much to be completely innocent.

This is all that I think needs to be said about Agan. She mocks our pain and then she tries to cure it....by ending the pain or us though? Also, note that she’s referring to the cobbler as a she again. Could someone remind me: does she always do that, or is it only an occasional thing? I simply don’t have time to look toDay, for which I apologize. :/




I am confused, and haven’t really made up my mind about most things, but I believe I can section off at least a few people.....


Will lynch:
Gal
Agan



Will not lynch:
Nog
Menel (presently, anyway, as I wish to keep him around)



I am currently undecided on everyone else. I’ll probably be voting shortly before work again, though I hope I can be more active later in the evening (read, when I get home tonight).

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Nog

WHAT?

Well, well. On the face of it, this looks like the very same slip that Aganwolf made in Wilwa's fairytale game years ago. Anyone remember that? (I bet Agan does. )

Not quite sure, though– I can sort of see what she might have been trying to say there, but it's very convoluted.

[Galadriel55]

You know what? For the greater good.


++G55


Although it is my problem, it is not my fault that the village as a whole is being dumb toDay. At least this way it will be more productive.

Seriously, I was shaking with rage when I left the computer, and I have no desire to go through it again. Trying to convince you is like walking through quicksand: the more you try, the less you accomplish. So you'd be more efficient with your analyses and attention and whatnot if you vote me and stop talking about me, and start concentrating on other people. If I try to resist my lynch I'll only waste everyone's time and energy that could be spent on looking for wolves. You've discussed me long enough. Just vote and get on to searching for real wolves. If anyone tries to bring the conversation to my posts again, he or she should be tested carefully for being wolves who want to keep attention off themselves.

Just lynch me, cause if you won't this is going to repeat toMorrow and the Day after and etc for as long as I survive.

Take a look at Nog for me toMorrow, if you would.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Will lynch:
Gal
Agan



Will not lynch:
Nog
Menel (presently, anyway, as I wish to keep him around)



I am currently undecided on everyone else.

This kind of strengthens my suspicion G55 and Sally are in cahoots (and that Sally actually tried to save her late on D1).

She seemed happy enough to mirror my "open attitude" when I said my own vote looks bad, and as no one seemed to cling on it, she decided to make a similar kind of post herself about her voting.

Then her defence of G55 came in just after the odd slip G55 made - and now when some people started talking about it, she has made a 180 (which to be honest sounds more like they had discussed it last Night saying "if they get G, let's join the chorus but let's try to keep her alive if possible").

But the most vicious thing - and the one that kind of makes me reaallly suspect Sally is that I find myself from her really short list of "will not lynch".

The other being Menel... so as to keep up the appearace (?) that she thinks Menel was actually the seer dream of Zil (so G55 is not a dreamt wolf). Nice. But why me then? Of all people why does she think I'm the other one she doesn't want to lynch? Being too close to truth and willing to appease, make me feel good? Sometimes stretching the "right way" means stretching the "wrong way".

So unless she comes up with more convincing reasons why she thinks I'm innocent than trying to rub me the right way and thus possibly not suspect her any more, I'm going to suspect her.

[Nogrod]

Sudden and unwarranted trust is one of the easiest way to track evil...

(Werewolf Handbook, Chapter 5 "Catching a werewolf", 2:2 "Signs to be weary of")

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, where is everyone? Anyway, a short list...

Shasta - is interacting, even though it is very difficult to tell what exactly is he doing, I think he's been shifting a bit under my radar. Would like to read more and clarify my thoughts on him in the future.
Menel - popped in once toDay. Would be nice to see more from him in the future. I do not have any reason to suspect him, but then again, no input is no input.
Glirdan - a bit the same case as Shasta, even though a lot less contributive. Also would like more input from him.
G55 - some of her posts seem genuine, some look more strange and suspicious. Her somewhat confusing/contradictory explanations of what exactly she meant or suggesting that Zil being the Seer was not the reason for the WW's kill, along with the possible slip about "wolves thinking that Zil dreamt of Galwolf" are rather bad, the self-vote is another thing to consider, though, and what exactly was the motive of it.
Nerwen - is very sharp, very witty, has observations I can identify with, so unless I turn paranoid, I think this far I don't have reasons to say anything against her.
Nogrod - keeps his place on my suspicion list. He is sort of casting suspicions around - yesterday it was with Menel, then he voted in the Pitchwagon (and later said he would have perhaps preferred G55), toDay he was mostly going with the main direction of the discussion, casting suspicion again on G55 now, and on sally later. He had this "I acknowledge my vote was bad"-moment, which later sally said too, I think in general their votes depend a lot on what G55's role is.
Lommy - if it were not for the last-minute rather sudden jump on bandwagon started before by Agan, I wouldn't probably have thought her any awkward at all.
Aganzir - I wonder if her vote for sally was retaliation, though Agan is certainly not the person I'd expect to act that way (sort of, too "primitive" reaction for her, I'd say). Otherwise, maybe she does deserve a look, but she also had from the start some rather good observations and comments.
Sally - some points raised about her lately, she came out of the blue with some random ideas herself, too (like looking at Agan). She seems a bit as if she were out of the game first and then suddenly came bursting with ideas. Like Nog, she pointed out how bad her vote was, see above.
Kath - has disappeared quite early in the Day, nothing much to tell right now.

Basically, either Nog or G55 could be my votes toDay. I don't want to jump any sallywagon also because I think it would be rather random first, and unlike in Nog's case, she said too little to analyse. That means I would like to see more from her, just like from about half a dozen submarines otherwise.

Now to see if anybody at least posted meanwhile...

EDIT: x-ed with everyone since my last post.

[Nogrod]

Okay, lynching G55 might bring light to a few questions and it looks more probable to me she is a wolf than not - which doesn't mean I'm happy and easy to go with lynching her, but think it a reasonable choice.

On the other hand I just re-checked Sally's #139 and it really makes me want to lynch her, especially her odd choice of saying she will not want to lynch me (or Menel - picking us two from everyone else just like that) - which I just can't see any justification whatsoever, but to try and rub me the nice way to make me not wish to lynch her. If that was her plan it is backfiring in a major way...

[Nogrod]

Ditto, Nerwen!

Exactly. And I think some other posts of hers kind of reveal that same kind of rift between what she as a wolf thinks and how she tries to present things as a non-wolf... or to be more exact: it looks like there is that duality.

Does anyone have a tally?

G55 3 votes and Sally 2? Right?

[satansaloser2005]

Rub you the right way? Seriously, Nog, I really [I]am[I] a delivery girl....

Well, crunch time, and since the sultry minx isn't on the table, my vote shouldn't be a surprise.

++the little Gal

Cobbler or wolf, it's still evil (although obviously I prefer the latter).

Heading into work. I hope the lynch goes good (aka not toward me, please). Good luck!


X'd since Nog's #159