Ten Year Anniversary Game: Living Thread

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Formendacil

It has occurred to me to make a list of people and rate them based on my impressions--but more than half the village would fall under "hasn't said enough for me to have any idea."

Well, did you see my list?

Originally Posted by Rikae

It doesn't require elaborate choosing of spokespeople, just an agreement well before the deadline. The strategy won't make sense if the village gets very small, because the extra vote will carry too much weight in its own right, but early on, it could be very valuable.

It's interesting how many people are arguing that it either can't be done or is somehow oppressive. And by interesting, I mean suspicious.

I'm only skeptical how the village will reach an agreement that the dead consider enough of an agreement to act on it. Then again, given how we're toDay kind of sliding towards an agreement that we'll vote as normal and not try to orchestrate a tie, maybe you're right and I'm just being pessimistic. The bottom line being (sorry for being the Captain Obvious here!) we can't of course know whether an "organic" direction by the living towards the dead thread will work or not until we've tried it. (There is a voice in my head asking if we'll know it even after we've tried it, but I'm getting too tired to think it through.)

As for those who consider such direction oppressive, well, I think it's an emotional knee-jerk reaction, and while I don't think they've thought it through, I can definitely see where they're coming from so I don't personally find it very suspicious.

Originally Posted by Nog

The Phantom then would be really cool Day1 wolf-lynch, something worth an anniversary -game!

We can hardly pat ourselves on the back for lynching the phantomwolf on Day1 if we do it just because he's the phantom. Also I'm starting to get a little suspicious of Nog's push to lynch the phantom despite not even suspecting him. Just, why would you do that?

Originally Posted by Nog

which goes for Lommy too (even if I do wonder her insistence on the spokesperson -idea)

Just nitpicking a little, I didn't insist on the spokesperson idea, I merely suggested it. But for the record I think it's still worth thinking about, even though I can't really see how it would be orchestrated without wasting a horrible amount of time and energy. It's very much worth keeping in mind if we ever have a known innocent though.

In any case, I'm going to sleep now as it's past 3am (oops - how I've missed werewolf! ). Choose well.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

We can hardly pat ourselves on the back for lynching the phantomwolf on Day1 if we do it just because he's the phantom. Also I'm starting to get a little suspicious of Nog's push to lynch the phantom despite not even suspecting him. Just, why would you do that?

I agree it's not the most beautiful way of getting rid of a phantomwolf on D1 to do it "just because" - but it would be a remarkable deed anyway.

But looking at this game (with the Dead Thread aka. no one is actually booted out of the game - and that changes everything) I still wonder how differently people think. I mean I'm happy to go to the Dead Thread as I have nothing to worry (if I'm lynched no gifted is lynched - and lynching a wolf is anyway a remarkable deed - so an innocent goes every now and then) and I think an innocent tp would think the same as well. But he clearly doesn't - and that's why I suspect him.

So Lommy: I do suspect him and made the point in my post up there (#172) - like Agan he was overly defensive in his quick reactions.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Nog, the only way it's flimsy and far-fetched is if someone insists on jumping in and arguing needlessly about what vote should mean what (and anyone who does that looks very, very furry). As long as the dead have enough options, whatever the first person says should be fine.

It may be I'm missing something from this ingenious plan of yours, but it looks dowright doomed. Why would the dead pick the choices of the living? Why would they go for a "neutral voter" if they had better plans? How would we orchestrate it that they'd be forced to do our picking? How do you tell, if the "decision" of the dead is made by well informed majority of innocents?

The dead will basically know 1/3 of the roles - well alignments - there's a lot of rom for distraction, tom-foolery, laziness, well made plots etc. to twist the vote of the dead not being what the Living would like it to be - or think they could interpret it to be.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

It may be I'm missing something from this ingenious plan of yours, but it looks dowright doomed.

It's basically the phantom's plan, in this post.

Not that I trust the phantom, necessarily, but it's a plan that can get us some of the dead's information, and therefore, a good idea.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Why would the dead pick the choices of the living?

I'm not sure what you mean. The living would finish voting early, so the dead would already know who voted for whom before choosing who to empower.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Why would they go for a "neutral voter" if they had better plans?

There would be more than one "neutral" choice.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

How would we orchestrate it that they'd be forced to do our picking?

Forced to do our picking? I'm not sure what you mean by that at all.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

How do you tell, if the "decision" of the dead is made by well informed majority of innocents?

I addressed the dead wolves issue here and Nilp did here.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

The dead will basically know 1/3 of the roles - well alignments - there's a lot of rom for distraction, tom-foolery, laziness, well made plots etc. to twist the vote of the dead not being what the Living would like it to be - or think they could interpret it to be.

So, you'd rather get less information from them? That doesn't sound like you, Nog. Next thing, you'll be telling the living to post less, because loud wolves create confusion!


Oooh, refreshed and saw this:

Originally Posted by the phantom

Nog and others- if you are good and Rikae is evil, I do wonder what your excuse is for being so clearly dominated when it comes to exercising common sense. Rikae is just hitting it out of the park.

Buttering me up, eh? Wolfish. True, but wolfish.

[Rikae]

Ha!

"True" that I'm hitting it out of the park. Not the "Rikae is evil" part.

[satansaloser2005]

Huh. So that happened.

Phantom I understand -who doesn't want to kill Phantom- but why Rune?

[Rikae]

Rune seemed very opposed to a Day 1 vote, and I got the feeling he was worried he'd end up on the chopping block.

I could see someone thinking that was seerish.

[Rikae]

I mean a Day 1 lynch. As opposed to a tie.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Rune seemed very opposed to a Day 1 vote, and I got the feeling he was worried he'd end up on the chopping block.

I could see someone thinking that was seerish.

I suppose that's possible. So is the rival wolf pack perhaps thinking he was trying to delay a lynch to give the baddies an advantage.

I'll have a go through his posts before I head off to bed. Back soon.

[Firefoot]

I only have about five minutes to post right now, so sorry I can't be more helpful with quotes and references.

I was looking at the way the Nogrod bandwagon developed and it's really quite odd. Both phantom and B88 mention suspicions of him back on page 4, which is where Nogrod started gaining suspicion, but still most people were somewhere in between "maybe suspicious but not gonna vote for him" and "seems ok" with their read on him. The people who voted for him are mostly really conspicuously absent from that discussion (they weren't posting at all though so it could be a timezone/timing thing). That makes Lottie, Eomer, Shasta, and Satan all potentially suspicious to me - at least worthy of a closer look.

Also, finally realized now that Lottie is loslote. And given that, she also mentions a suspicion of Nogrod on page 5 before the voting really gets going.

[Macalaure]

Writing stuff down as I go through the early day posting.

There's something odd going on in #247,248,250:
First, Sally suggests Rune might have been a wolf killed by the other wolves. I'm not following her reasoning really. Also, I don't think that's their priority yet.
Then Morm is all over it for this reason, which is ok, but also because she's "trying to make a case against a dead man". How else are we going to figure something out at this point before we get any evidence back from the dead?
Then Lottie is all over morm for being "weirdly defensive", making him highly suspicious. I get criticizing him, but that's too quick over too little.

...aaand then Greenie mentions the exact same thing, just more eloquently. Well, actually not the exact same thing, since I'm raising half an eyebrow at morm, too.


Firefoot, I really don't think you can base any suspicions on whether people wanted a tied vote or not. I mean, you yourself give reason why both goodies and baddies could be for or against it.

Originally Posted by Firefoot

He spends a lot of time on statistics, which could be an innocent actually being helpful or a wolf trying to look helpful without actually contributing to the discussion of who’s who

I'll gladly admit that I wasn't actually helpful yet at that point. I even admitted it yesterDay. It was early-ish Day1, and a good part of the village hadn't even posted yet.

Originally Posted by Firefoot

Seems easily swayed (#168, #188) – bandwagoning? Or just confused innocent.

Because I read what other people post and it changes my opinion of them? Shocker...

Originally Posted by Firefoot

Then at the end he seems almost gleeful about Nogrod’s death, which sat poorly with me.

I wasn't gleeful. I feel genuinely bad for the man. In the last dead thread -type game, he was lynched right away early on, too.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

The tone of this, now, seems oddly confident of how the wolves reasoned and oddly specific.

I suspected Rune yesterDay because his tone felt off. Then I realized it might be because he's gifted, so I backed off quietly. I guess I'm projecting my thoughts on the wolves?

Originally Posted by Lalaith

Who is saved by this flurry? Aganzir.

That's why the later Nog votes (Eomer, Shasta, Sally) bother me more than the earlier ones (Boro, tp, maybe Loslote). For the later it was an easy way to pile votes, for the earlier it was a risk.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I love that Macalaure took the trouble to consider that I might be a gifted before he decided to vote for me.

I didn't consider it, I dismissed it.

Originally Posted by Legate

I sincerely doubt the WWs would have killed him just because he told them to do so. Who would!!!

First rule of Werewolf: Don't do what the phantom tells you to do.
Can we edit the werewolf sticky?

Actually, though, the beginning of Legate's post 270 doesn't sit right with me. It's almost all about why the phantom was the one and only logical choice for the wolves (highly debateable), and then he concludes that phantom must have been a wolf because both packs didn't go for him (jumping to conclusion). I mean, come on.

Originally Posted by Legate

One thing is also that I am not sure how much would WWs try to save a fellow by a bandwagon in this game in such a visible manner.

Without having roles revealed, they might be able to get away with it for longer than usual. Unfortunately.

Originally Posted by Legate

there probably would be at least one baddie among the Nog voters - regardless of Nog's actual role and the role of the bandwagon. Just too good a bandwagon to pass,

What makes it any better than the other bandwaggons? It was rushed, last minute, and awfully obvious. I'd actually say it was a bad one to hide in.


About phantom hinting at hunter-ism with his "kill me" post. Hunters have awfully bad chances early in the game, and the phantom should know this, and therefore would not make a post like that until he has a thorough grasp on who to take down with him, which I don't think he had yet. Of course, this doesn't mean the wolves didn't interpret it this way.


Previewing my post... what an ugly mess of quotes and comments. I offer apologies.

[Thinlómien]

Macalaure seems horribly... mischevious? Carefree? I think that might be indicative of him being an ordo who's just decided to enjoy the ride.

Originally Posted by Boro

For example, if they were able to uncover phantom's role last night, then toDAY we could set up something like...

if you discovered tp is a predator give an extra vote to someone in the Day 1 Aganwagon.

If tp is a pretty give the extra vote to someone in the Day 1 Nogwagon.

...etc

Wait - the only works from toMorrow on, right? Because last Night Nogrod would have hardly alone uncovered he role of... Nogrod.

Originally Posted by Eomer

One small point: Lommy's post #271 mistakenly quotes me. I don't know who posted those words but it certainly wasn't me.

Oops, I'm sorry! I checked, it was Boro. I added a correction to the quote so it shouldn't confuse anyone anymore.

Originally Posted by Form

In the cold light of day, the Agan/Lommy spat seems to have vanished as quickly as it started,which is either proof of innocence or a sign of Nightly discussion in my mind, which makes me think for the first time that they might be littermates.

Well, we're not arguing anymore but thre has been nothing to lessen my suspicion of Aganzir, and to be honest I don't have very many other leads before I sit down to think a bit more.

*off to do that next*

[Aganzir]

So my brain isn't working and I can't get anything done and keep absentmindedly refreshing the thread to see if anyone has said anything I could reply to with a one-liner.

Half an hour later. This really isn't working. So all you're getting is very general impressions and my sincere apologies and no actual evidence.

GUILTY

• Macalaure - he's off and I'm not comfortable with him. At the same time I'm wondering if a wolf would presume to be so convinced about my guilt.
• McCaber - I didn't like how he interpreted my part in me and Lommy's fight.
• Thinlómien - strong and overtly excited reaction to my joke, and tries to make it sound like I used tiredness as my only excuse when I in fact said I got really upset because I felt she was being intentionally rude.
• Greenie - now I happen to know she's had a lot of time in her hands because she's been home with the most awful cough (I can occasionally hear her in the next room - yes all Finnish Barrow-Downers live together at one point or other), and she's made loads of good points. But amidst all this she's too spotless and pure, and butter truly wouldn't melt in her mouth. And it's the not ruffling any feathers part that makes me wary, most of all.

It feels a little lazy to suspect only people who have voted for me but that's apparently the way it goes today. I want to take another quick look at them before voting (not that I'm likely to post anything about it unless something strikes me as absolutely vital, I can't keep my eyes open).

INNOCENT

• Formendacil - his whining, volunteering and self-vote on DAY 1 looked reasonably good.
• Rikae - I'm liking their points so far and seems generally innocent, so I'm generally happy to keep them around for longer.
• Firefoot - seems reasonable to me, nothing to worry about so far.
• Mithalwen - I wasn't happy that she voted for me yesterday but other than that I have nothing against her.
• Legate - seems more innocent than not. I think he said something weird on DAY 1 but I'm yawning too much to go back to check it right now.

EITHER

• Loslote - She felt a little off to me on DAY 1 but I thought her point about no solid gifted clues was a decent one. Other than that no idea.
• sally - I didn't entirely understand where she was coming from with Rune but I didn't see it as obviously wolfish, and I think she'd have been happy to get rid of me if she's a wolf. It's hard to tell though because she hasn't been talking about me a whole lot and that's usually my way of telling how it's going with her.
• Boro - looking okay but I have too little to go on.
• Gwathagor - I messaged him on facebook to ask if he's playing.
• Eomer - has escaped my notice so far. Sneaky.
• Nerwen - very observant but stays in the shadows
• Lalaith - inclined towards innocent a little more than guilty, but (EDIT: apparently I got distracted here - I was going to say something like) hasn't been talking a lot and I feel she's focused a bit too much on me and Lommy's spat.
• mormegil - mystifying but reasonable, no idea.
• Nilp - no read.
• Shasta - it struck me the wrong way when he said he would've felt better about me if I'd only said I voted Lommy yesterday in retaliation, but not much - it just felt a little bit wolfish to me. Other than that I have nothing.
• Kath - have you forgotten you're playing dear?

[McCaber]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

[*]Thinlómien - strong and overtly excited reaction to my joke, and tries to make it sound like I used tiredness as my only excuse when I in fact said I got really upset because I felt she was being intentionally rude.

So wait, you spend a lot of time toDay trying to smooth things over with her, and now she's back on your guilty list?

I'm running out of time and I might not be back before DL, but for me not a lot has changed.

++ Aganzir

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by McCaber

So wait, you spend a lot of time toDay trying to smooth things over with her, and now she's back on your guilty list?

I apologised for having upset her. I never said she looked innocent.