Tol-in-Gaurhoth CXIV – The Evil Breath of Morgoth in Dor-lómin, game thread

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Look at that tie.

That's a mighty niccccccce tie there. It would be a shame if something happened to it.


Sorry, I'm just being obnoxious at this point. :/


x'd with Steve

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

That's a mighty niccccccce tie there. It would be a shame if something happened to it.


Sorry, I'm just being obnoxious at this point. :/


x'd with Steve

Rofl about this. But yeah, horribly intense situation here.

[Nogrod]

DEADLINE: PLEASE CEASE ALL POSTING!



Huinesoron is moved into quarantine.

A narration will follow as soon as possible, hopefully in 15 minutes - half an hour.

[Nogrod]

With the horrifying revelation of there being some Morgoth infected souls deliberately spreading the illness, the nature of discussion changed even more from possible physical symptoms to mental ones. Most everyone was scrutinized by others in depth on what they had said and done the previous Day – and to a lesser degree to even what they had said this Day.

~*~

The discussion was brought to a halt in the afternoon when Brandir came around asking for his grandmother. As soon as people realized that no-one had seen her after midday, people started getting worried. Morwen asked the Nurse and Aerin to take care of the children and joined others in the search.

She was nowhere to be found.

Finally Algund yelled from the main gates. There was Glóredhel, leaning to a tall oak just outside the Village. She seemed cool and collected, staring somewhere far out of sight. Coming closer Halmir suddenly realized she was not breathing at all. His legs gave up under him and he fell to the muddy ground.

“Why! Why the House of Haleth! Why didn’t you take me instead! Be damned Morgoth, and your evil deeds!” He cried, pulling his hair.

“She’s withered away from grief…” said Indor quietly: “the way of spirits more delicate than ours”.

They carried her body to the old Badger’s cabin just around the corner and tucked her in some blankets. They’d have a decent funeral for her when all this was over.

~*~

“How about if I don’t want to go? Those are probably ill people in there. I don’t want to get infected!” Hareth stared at the crowd wildly. “I’m your mother, for Valar’s sake!” she yelled at her sons standing in front of her. “How dare you!”

“You just go” Grithnir said calmly notching an arrow.

“Yes, just no sudden movements” echoed Gethron drawing his bow as well.

“Do as you’re told mother. If you’re innocent, the Valar will protect you”, Húrin said calmly.

“But I am not!” Hareth screamed, eyes glowing red, and jumped on his sons.

There was a sharp snap and a soft thud, and another.

Hareth fell down with two arrows deep in her thigs.

Asgon noticed the brothers were stunned and took the reins. “Sador and Ragnir, take her in, and Aerin, get some towels and herbs for her as she comes back to her senses”.

“If she comes back…” Morwen murmured to herself, shaking her head.


~*~


Dead, yes dead

Nogrod – “The Badger”, the Mod (dead on Night1)
Urwen – Glóredhel, healthy person (withered away in grief during D2)

Quarantined

Galadriel55 – Andróg, the Cobbler (voted into QT on Day1)
Rikae – Haldir, formerly healthy person (infected by the shady Infectors on Night2)
Huinesoron - Hareth, Infector (voted into QT on Day2)

Hanging around

Thinlómien
Legate of Amon Lanc
Loslote
Pitchwife
Kath
Lhunardawen
Inziladun
Kitanna
A Little Green
Boromir88
Lalaith
Brinniel
Eönwë
Macalaure
Rune Son of Bjarne
THE Ka
Satansaloser2005
Shastanis Althreduin



It’s now Night 3.

Sleep or not, next posting in about 24 hours.

[Nogrod]

That Night the Village slept uneasily. It was not just the threat that kept them awake, but also the excitement of the debate – and naturally the dramatic end of the Day. If Hareth could have fallen under Morgoth’s evil spells, then it could befall on just about anyone. There were horrific thoughts in peoples’ minds that Night: could even Húrin or Huor be, or the children? Lalaith? Morwen was having terrifying nightmares.

Húrin couldn’t sleep beside his wife who kept rolling around in her sheets, and stalked silently outside the Village to be alone for a moment. He watched the starry sky which looked exactly the same it always looked, like anything that was going on down in the Village didn’t mean anything, didn’t change anything. Yet, he was wishing Valar would help him, and it was under the light of the stars he could feel a tiny bit of solace.

Suddenly there was a crack somewhere in the woods somewhere near him. Húrin awoke from his dreams and was immediately up and awake. He listened. A deer? He thought he saw something disappearing between the trees maybe thirty yards from him.

More noises broke out abruptly from the opposite direction, several of them now. Then there was a yell of pain he recognized too well.

“Bro!” Húrin jumped towards the cry drawing his sword as he ran. “Huor! Where are you?”

“Take them down! Run!” he heard his brother yelling somewhere to his left as he was running down the slope. Several shapes slipped away into the darkness in different directions. It was impossible to reach them all. Drawing breath Húrin realized he’d get none of them – and Huor was there just beside him, in pain.

Húrin sheathed his sword and ran to his brother.

“What did they do to you?” Húrin touched Huor’s forehead and fell the heat. Bending down he reached for his eyes. “Who were they? Did you recognize anyone?” Huor shook his head and then suddenly pushed his brother away violently, using an amazing amount of strength for a man in his condition.

“Stay away from me!” he cried, breathing heavily. “They got our mother and now they got me. You must live! Listen to me. You shall live for greater things, and for the house of Hador!” The effort was clearly too much for him and he fell back to the ground sweating excessively, slowly passing out.

Húrin walked slowly back to the village carrying his half unconscious brother on his back to the Great Hall. With a little help from Asgon, he set his brother into a bench with some blankets and cushions.

“What on Arda were you doing out there brother?” Húrin asked Huor when their eyes met.

“I thought I was protecting you…” he said with a failing voice, but then managed a faint smile. “It seems it was the other way around this Night. What a failure.” Huor closed his eyes.

“I’ll promise this will be set right! And you’ll get better. Trust me.” Huor slept and didn’t answer anymore. Húrin left the Hall not quite sure whether even he believed in his own words.


~*~


Dead, yes dead

Nogrod – “The Badger”, the Mod (dead on Night1)
Urwen – Glóredhel, healthy person (withered away in grief during Day2)

Quarantined

Galadriel55 – Andróg, the Cobbler (voted into QT on Day1)
Rikae – Haldir, formerly healthy person (infected by the shady Infectors on Night2)
Huinesoron – Hareth, an Infector (voted into QT on Day2)
Kitanna – Huor, the Ranger (infected in the woods by the Infectors on Night3)

Hanging around

Thinlómien
Legate of Amon Lanc
Loslote
Pitchwife
Kath
Lhunardawen
Inziladun
A Little Green
Boromir88
Lalaith
Brinniel
Eönwë
Macalaure
Rune Son of Bjarne
THE Ka
Satansaloser2005
Shastanis Althreduin


It’s now Day 3

You are welcome to take on the Thread again.

[Inziladun]

Well, no more doubt around KitRanger.

YesterDay's Hueywagon turned out well, but it seemed to me to come out of nowhere. It's the same issue I had with the sudden push on Brinn the previous Day.
Adding to my trepidation was the fact that Lottie and Pitch, who I was very wary of, were on it.

I tried to consolidate yesterDay's comments, and later, votes on Huey :

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Huinesoron's first post makes me wonder, because on the one hand, the way he's describing his Nightly activity as scribbling this post - which he clearly did - makes it more likely to be an innocent's endeavour; but on the other hand, I am just returning to my misgivings yesterDay and wondering whether he's exactly not being "helpful" here (perhaps WW with enought time on his hands, can imagine) plus subtly steering the discussion back to the "threesome" - and perhaps to Pitch, his yesterDay's suspect. If Pitch was innocent, it would be a safe way for a Wolf to keep on track with consistent suspicion onto a Day that starts the same way as the previous one: with the Village having nearly zero info.

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Hui: Starts to suspect Lommy based on her comments about Day 1, stating that it gave "finding a wolf toDay is impossible, so why bother trying" vibes. There's some further exchanges that continue that suspicion. In post #93, he's wary of Mac suspicions, and backs off Lommy slightly. By post #183 Lommy is back on the suspect list. He points out the suspicion against me has come out of nowhere and then votes G55 to avoid me getting lynched (thanks) and thinks a wolf is behind the bandwagon.

Impression: I don't agree with his Lommy suspicions, but I do like his concern about the bandwagon against me - however, that does not spell innocence. I could see a wolf trying to support an innocent to gain her trust. Hui does a lot of summaries of previous posts which appears helpful, but could also be a facade should he be a wolf.

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Also speaking of Huin there's this –

Why would a Pitchwolf want to move the focus onto Legate specifically, if not to move it away from a packmate or a suspected cobbler? What would be the motive? Huin also downplays the arguments against Brinn here:

He also explicitly voted to save Brinn yesterDay. Something going on here, though I’m starting to think it’s too open to be a wolf defending a packmate.

Originally Posted by Kath

Hui -> G55 6

Hui clearly stated he wanted to avoid Brinn getting lynched and so chose G55 because she had the higher vote tally. It's a bold statement to make at a point where no roles were known. What made him think Brinn was definitely worth saving?

Originally Posted by Kitanna

Since I haven't finished looking in-depth at everyone, no. These are the two I've formed a strong opinion on. Sorry you don't approve of my method for a reread.

Originally Posted by Lhunardawen

Huinesoron, that first post of yours toDay -- I can't. I just can't right now. I'll try going back to it later, but right now just looking at it... *brain explodes*

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

YELLOW

Huinesoron - everytime I read a post of theirs, I'm like 80% "how does your brain work that way???" but that doesn't mean they have guilty brain, just that they have different brain from me. I'm aware I kind give them the benefit of doubt based on this endlessly, but for the time being I'm not too worried about any particular thing.

Originally Posted by Lhunardawen

Huinesoron
Questioned G55 for "hypothetically contemplating possible Wolf victories" (wolf-Hunter-ordo endgame).

But unless I missed something, I'm pretty sure that post above was his first considerable suspicion of her.

Mmmkay. Then false-voted Lommy. When G55 and Brinn tied at 2 apiece, said he still stands by his false-vote but would vote Pitch > G55 to derail the Brinnwagon. In the end voted G55 when the votes were at 4 Brinn, 3 Pitch, 5 G55.

If he voted Pitch as he preferred, he would have nearly contributed to a three-way tie, although I'm not sure if anyone else (other than Lottie, who at that point had already voted) would also vote for Pitch. Huin-Brinn wolf pair? Can it be that blatant?

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Okay, and I am getting bad vibe from Lottie's post above.

It essentially says "I am suspicious of the people who did something toDay that has provoked controversy" - that could easily also mean "I am a Wolf waiting for people to pick which of the bandwagons that are offering themselves toDay would be the best to ride on". These are literally all the things that were controversial toDay, stated by someone else, so I could imagine Lothwolf writing it here to "butter up" people who first stated it. I am wary.

Similar kind of behaviour I have been noticing toDay still also in Huinesoron, to a degree - even though in his case, it is rather along the lines of "I comment on XY, but then again just so that you don't think, I do not really mean it, but thought you should know".

Originally Posted by Kath

Is all this based on simply the fact that people went after Brinn? Given we don't know her role can such firm suspicions really be drawn at this point. If she'd been lynched and had turned out to be innocent I think this would all deserve a bit more credence.

Originally Posted by Eönwë

Huinesoron - Nothing pinging any alarm bells so far. Lots of well-thought-out posts.

Originally Posted by Lhunardawen

Bears looking at more closely:
Boro
Kath
Huin
Zil
Kit
Eönwë

Originally Posted by Loslote

Feel okay aboutHuinesoron - I like the way he's thinking about the game, which makes me feel generally okay about him. I do see some of the points people have made about his summaries not always being completely accurate, though, and that's something to keep an eye on - in particular, do his summaries end up resulting in a cohesive misleading campaign?

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Huin - seems very helpful and productive, but sometimes feels odd

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Wasn't really thinking of it regarding Night kill, but I do think a wolf could possibly be hidden there. Their hands would look a little cleaner compared to others if I were lynched, thus proven innocent. It the reason I am slightly worried about Hui.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Gotta agree with Mac for a sec, this post of Huin's was kinda strange. Also they seem to "know" Mac is going to get lynched toDay, which is very I mean sure, Mac has been one of the main suspects toDay but it could still go numerous ways with more than 2h to go and merely a handful of votes cast.

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

TOWARDS-THE-RED-END-OF-THE-SPECTRUM-ZONE:

Huinesoron - I said above, is the sort of "I am being very sensible with - possibly - occasionally leaving accusations around in the metaphorical form of unfinished sentence". The consistency of their yesterDay's suspicion would be a plus, on the other hand the vote yesterDay was one of those "I will wait what happens and act accordingly" - which however is something many people would do, regardless of role.

Originally Posted by Loslote

And Mac's reactions to Huin are feeling more innocent now, and Huin's last couple of posts are feeling a little more like a salesman..... I'm less enthusiastic about a Mac vote after seeing how he's defending himself, which doesn't feel desperate, more annoyed. I think I'm leaning towards Zil instead, I'm too torn on Mac.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Huey, Lottie, and Inzil all remarked caution against a Brinn-wagon. Which I also found suspicious. It's almost like a wolf/wolves trying to appear reasonable in "hey let's not bandwagon."

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

This again made my radar *ping* at HS. This again sounds like casting blame "from the flank", or "as he passes by". By now, however, HS has been doing it so consistently that I am really beginning to wonder.

Still. Right now, considering voting either HS, Lottie or Brinn. The former two seem to affect me the way that I keep telling myself "you are exaggerating", but then I see their next post and it's the same thing all over again. If I don't vote now and wait, I may end up again with the choice of some bandwagons about someone completely different and I would prefer not to do that. If it happened however and it was about some of those others that got votes so far, I would not be opposed to voting Lommy, possibly, but the whole thing seems horribly sinister and I have zero, zero, zero idea how to react to Mac. Zero.

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

I'm at the moment strongly considering voting Brinn. Otherwise I thought to start a Huinesoron vote or somesuch, but I am not sure if anyone at all would go for it.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Maybe too late and near DL to look through Huey for consideration today, but he's worth a thorough look.

Originally Posted by Loslote

I wouldn't be opposed to voting for Huinesoron. I mentioned earlier that [b]Mac[b] was looking more innocent to me, and I started getting a kind of sketchy vibe from Huin. Even when I put him in my "feeling okay" category in my list, I mentioned that I wanted to keep an eye on his habit of slightly misrepresenting things in his summaries, as well. I'm going to take a closer look at him, but I would consider him a candidate for voting toDay.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

People talking about voting Huinesoron? Well that would be a Plot Twist but not necessarily a bad one. If he's a wolf, I wager Brinn is one too. He pretty much admitted to trying to save her on Day1, which just sounded off to me. But I have really hard time reading Huin because as I've said, I just don't follow his thought processes because it seems we disagree on every turn.

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Huey seems capable of long, analytical posts and somehow steers clear of controversy in the meantime. I am not at all at ease with him, but I don't think I'd vote him just yet.

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Since now there seems to be more support for it too, I may vote Hui. But otherwise I'm also very much favouring Brinnlynch to others.

Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne

No read
Hui
Kath
Boromir
Lalaith
Sally
Mac
Greenie

Originally Posted by Brinniel

I could vote Hui, but I would prefer Inzil. Feeling less sure about Mac - his latest posts feel okay, but I keep going back and forth on this.

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Hey whatever. I may just as well do something on time for once, and offer some options.

++Huinesoron

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Rereading Huin’s post while I’m looking over posts raises my blood pressure.

Originally Posted by Macalaure

I might not be able to stay until the deadline, so probably my final thoughts:

Very bad
Huin, Greenie

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

I could still vote Zil, or I could actually get behind Legate's Hui vote. A few of Hui's posts look like subtly sewing suspicion while not getting too involved in anything.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Of those who currently have votes. I do not want to vote Lommy, Inzil or Huey.

Originally Posted by Kitanna

Here's some rushed thoughts onHuinesoron
YesterDay, he came down hard on Lommy, initially for what looked to me like a normal "woe onto Day 1 and chaos" post. But he kept on it.
At the same time he threw light suspicion at LGP and also really pushed for "why is Mac so suspicious? And he kept pushing it, though Mac didn't ever appear to be a contender to be lynched. Then when Brinn fell under scrutiny he did the same sort of thing. Ultimately voting G55

Is how he starts the Day. Which, why not have a cobbler in that group? I think it makes sense for a cobbler to propose such an idea, then back away. In the same way I could believe it of a wolf.
And is back on his Lommy lynch train. Still not seeing why, then again, I haven't dug in on Lommy too much. Still it seems weird how he always keeps her there, ready to lynch, but then goes a different direction.

I feel he wants to get credit for saying "let's back off, Kit, shall we?" When it wasn't really necessary to establish a timeline for that. I revealed myself when enough people brought up my fake reveal reaction and I said I was done engaging on the subject. From a village standpoint, yeah, let it go, because innocents commenting on it are just digging themselves into a hole for wolves to hide in. But it alarms me Huin went out of his way to establish who said it first.
After a Day of demanding why people saw Mac as suspicious, and in my frantic refreshing to stay onto of new posts I see he's voted Mac.


Yes! This! A million times! If I could use profanities here, I would.

So final thoughts on the Day.
Huin I feel if Huin is a wolf, then look deeper into Lommy. He has been harping on her since the start, but doesn't act on it. He spoke a lot, but I don't feel he always said anything, which is funny because he leveled that same statement at others yesterDay. He demands reasons for Mac and Brinn being so suspicious, but I don't feel like he really looked at people's reasons of why in the first place. He just saw these names that were gaining just enough traction and pounced. Like if they were lynched and turned out innocent he would look good. But then today he votes Mac. Erm...ok? Which at the beginning of the day, after reviewing Day 1, I'd have voted Mac too, but now? I feel like there's more to go on elsewhere.
And then the "leave Kit alone" timeline Huin tries to establish worries me.

++Huinesoron

Originally Posted by Loslote

We are really coming down to the wire here. I'm leaning towards voting Huinesoron.

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

You know what, let's.

++Huinesoron

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

This Huinewagon is staring to look interesting, just saying, regardless of his role...

Originally Posted by Loslote

Yeah, okay.

++Huinesoron

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Gah, I really wanted to vote Inzil toDay but I think I would rather see Hui lynched over Mac.

Originally Posted by Eönwë

I'm still open to a Brinn vote and am open to a Huey vote, but the former is seeming less and less likely.

Originally Posted by Lalaith

[RL] Sorry my mother just rang![/RL]
Ok I don't like this.
But because I trust Kit.
++Huinesoron

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Let's see what happens..

++Huinesoron

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I almost did that, for the same reason.

Originally Posted by Eönwë

Ok, with the vote count looking as it is, it looks like it's going to have to be:

++Huinesoron

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Hui's voters have an almost equal mix of people I trust and people I don't.

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Watch Huey be a wolf.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

I'm somewhat having a bad feeling about this and will totally look at the Huine voters toMorrow.

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Here's hoping...

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

I hope so, even though it would make me look awful.

Wolf-on-wolf is certainly not out of the question. In fact, it's likely. With five of them, they could afford to sacrifice one if it made another one or two look rosier, especially since Urwen's departure gave them what amounts to a free kill.

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Wolf-on-wolf is certainly not out of the question. In fact, it's likely. With five of them, they could afford to sacrifice one if it made another one or two look rosier, especially since Urwen's departure gave them what amounts to a free kill.

Right. And may I say that Eönwë voting Hui because 'with the vote count as it is it's going to have to be this way', after he'd earlier listed Hui as 'fine for now', is as good a candidate for this as any.

[Brinniel]

I was really hoping that Kit was an ordo acting like the ranger, but alas.

The Hui bandwagon really did come from nowhere - I'm just glad I trusted my gut. I don't think the wolves saw that bandwagon coming, however, I do think there's a fair chance that a wolf is hiding among the Hui voters, so I will not disregard them.

Another Day in which the baddies have deciding power in the QT vote. That thread has got to be getting interesting.

Will look over some things shortly..

[satansaloser2005]

Well, rats.

Just so we're clear here, I'm not easing off Mac just because Huey was a wolf. It would be easy for the wolves to sacrifice either one of them to clear the other.

Now bring on the accusations, because they might be fair. Wrong, but fair.


x'd with Dun, who was very prepared this Morning, and the rest

[Boromir88]

That is what I call an unexpected surprise. Of course it also makes me wonder what if Mac's a wolf too?

RIP Kit, sorry you had to come out. I was hoping people would just ignore your end of Day 1 comment to G55's fake reveal. Reinforces my general point that we can all be a little better at discretion, and not all discretion is evil!

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Wolf-on-wolf is certainly not out of the question. In fact, it's likely. With five of them, they could afford to sacrifice one if it made another one or two look rosier, especially since Urwen's departure gave them what amounts to a free kill.

Not out of the question, true. It would be convenient for a wolf to hide behind the "I trust Kit" reason. Revealed ranger, highly likely to be night killed, I can see being a good spot for a wolf to ally themselves and look good.

However, I'm going to put this disclaimer now and say I will not be considering the possibility of wolf-on-wolf votes yesterday. I just think there's more suspicious votes to be focusing on that has wolves, than the votes of those who lynched a wolf.

I did a thorough look of Huey's posts from Day 1 and 2. I must say he was someone I wasn't considering a suspect. In hindsight his end of Day 1 and end of Day 2 posts, I can definitely see why he was found suspicious. I'm going to get myself some dinner and be back with a Huey analysis.

Edit: crossed with everyone since Zil

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Well, no more doubt around KitRanger.

YesterDay's Hueywagon turned out well, but it seemed to me to come out of nowhere. It's the same issue I had with the sudden push on Brinn the previous Day.
Adding to my trepidation was the fact that Lottie and Pitch, who I was very wary of, were on it.

I tried to consolidate yesterDay's comments, and later, votes on Huey :

Wolf-on-wolf is certainly not out of the question. In fact, it's likely. With five of them, they could afford to sacrifice one if it made another one or two look rosier, especially since Urwen's departure gave them what amounts to a free kill.

What an opening post. I am a little surprised that with all those quoted posts, your only actual comments are that Pitch and I are still suspicious...despite voting for a wolf at a pivotal moment...with no mention of the people whose votes might have worked to save Huin, which in my opinion, is a far more suspicious group of people. And which happens to include you.

I broke yesterDay's voters into six groups, as follows, and I personally think those groups say a lot. Could there have been wolf on wolf? Absolutely, but I think you can still say that the people who really swung the vote Huin's way look pretty good.

Voted Huin early
Legate
Kitanna
Pitchwife
Lottie

I would say this group looks pretty decent. Why start up a whole bandwagon and encourage it if you don't have to?

Voted Huin late
Lalaith
Brinn
Eonwe

I would say this group looks very good. The voting was super tight. Any one of these people could have changed the outcome by voting elsewhere.

Voted Mac early
Lommy
Greenie
Huin

I would say this group is fine. It wasn't clear at that point that the vote was between Mac and Huin - I believe Zil was the other name being thrown around - so I don't think these votes were suspicious.

Voted Mac late
Sally
Zil
Boro
(Shasta)

I think this group looks very suspicious. I personally doubt Mac and Huin were packmates; therefore, these votes to me could easily be wolves trying to save a packmate. My guess is that there is one or two wolves between Sally, Zil, and Boro. I don't count Shasta because the vote was already decided when he voted.

Voted elsewhere early
Kath
Lhuna
Mac

Nothing much to say about these votes in my opinion.

Voted elsewhere late
Rune
THE Ka

Specifically, voted for me. I really disliked these votes, but of course I know that they were votes for an innocent, so I might be biased. However, they came at a point where the bandwagons were starting to look pretty set, and I could see a wolf latching onto this as a way to avoid voting for a packmate or committing to trying to save a packmate. Basically throw away votes - most of the people who wanted to vote for me had already voted at this point, there was little chance I would be lynched. I would guess one of these two are wolves.

Okay, so who do I think the wolves are? I think two of Sally/Boro/Zil, one of Rune/Ka, and I would guess Lommy is the fourth, due to the way she and Huin sort of soft suspected each other and the way Lommy ties Huin to Brinn in her #494. Given that a wolf would KNOW Huin was a wolf, and that Lommy does not try to save him but rather soft encourages the bandwagon, I find the decision to tie Huin to someone who later casts one of the late votes against Huin suspicious.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Wolf-on-wolf is certainly not out of the question. In fact, it's likely. With five of them, they could afford to sacrifice one if it made another one or two look rosier, especially since Urwen's departure gave them what amounts to a free kill.

I definitely think that wolf-on-wolf is a possibility, but this a first comment on the issue toDay seems suspicious to me. If Mac is innocent, then surely the majority of wolves are likely to be Mac voters. Of course, if Mac is also a wolf (which is very possible and something we shouldn't discount), this is more complicated, but only the wolves know whether he is.

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Right. And may I say that Eönwë voting Hui because 'with the vote count as it is it's going to have to be this way', after he'd earlier listed Hui as 'fine for now', is as good a candidate for this as any.

Of course, this being focused on me may be part of why this rubs me the wrong way, but again, it does seem weird to focus on my vote (the one that actually got Hui quarantined) over all the others as your first post toDay.

Also, unless Mac is also a wolf, it doesn't really follow - I'd already mentioned my suspicion of Mac earlier that Day (though I did later say I was feeling
a bit better about him later), so I if I'd wanted a manufactured reason to go after him, there was already precedent.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

I don't really see basically any reason for a wolf to vote Huin (except possibly something like the second vote if it looked like it wouldn't gain momentum? I need to have a better look how did it actually go) - I mean it would have been an absolutely unnecessary sacrifice from their pov. Even if Mac is a wolf too, he was surely the more expendable one out of the two with the amount of suspicion he'd garnered, while Huin had largely slipped unnoticed until the last minute bandwagon.

I actually think it's pretty likely that there is a wolf in the early Hui bandwaggon, but it gets decreasingly likely with each vote, especially once it was clear it was Hui vs. Mac (again, unless Mac is a wolf - I could see them being more likely to spread out their votes in that case).

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Therefore I would look toDay very hard at everyone who voted Mac after Huin got the first vote. Those were the people who protected Huin and there's almost certain to be AT LEAST one wolf in there, possibly more.

Agreed. Especially those who voted Hui after Lottie's vote caught them up to Mac's.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

However, I'm going to put this disclaimer now and say I will not be considering the possibility of wolf-on-wolf votes yesterday. I just think there's more suspicious votes to be focusing on that has wolves, than the votes of those who lynched a wolf.

This would be a good way of shielding packmates from scrutiny if Boro is a wolf, but I am sympathetic to his earlier comments about not being able to cover all ground/being stretched thin by the overwhelming number of people. On the other hand, both times it seems to cover the less-obvious wolves, which I do think is a little suspect.

I mostly agree with Lottie's post #598 (not quoted here because it's so long), except that I disagree that early Hui voters should be off the hook.

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Then all of a sudden, in #552, he's 'open to a Huey vote', with no explanation. So, what has changed?

As I mentioned, I started to feel better about Mac, and as I'd previously not felt much about Hui, I went with my gut instinct.

Originally Posted by Lalaith

Seriously? Logically, the only thing she could have been, other than the ranger, was the seer. Yesterday, I repeatedly asked people who doubted her innocence for justification and got none.

I don't think it was a 100% obvious thing, and I'm a little suspicious of those who act like it was - it's a lot easier to believe someone's slip when you know no-one is trying to lie to you. I know part of my reason for putting her in the maybe suspicious category was to not make it such a big thing like you and Zil did. The more attention that got drawn to it, the more obvious it seemed.

Originally Posted by Lalaith

I did wonder about this yesterDay, and when that vote she led against Huey turned out so effective I really did think she really was the Seer.

This is a good point that I hadn't thought about. However, this is also pretty wolfy logic. I hadn't really gotten a good read on her yet, but this post is making me suspicious of Lalaith.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Eönwë -> Huinesoron 7

This one sealed the deal. As far as I understand, he was up to date and aware that he was condemning Huine. Pretty bold, when he could have as well sat back and seen what Shasta would do. Or voted Mac to save Huine. Generally a very innocent-seeming vote, but I'd like him to elaborate what he meant by the "it's going to have to be" here: "Ok, with the vote count looking as it is, it looks like it's going to have to be: ++Huinesoron"

Mostly just that since I'd just mentioned that I didn't really want to vote for Mac (because he was starting to seem more innocent), and previously I was open to Brinn or Hui, I was going to go with the latter.

[Thinlómien]

A very expected Night kill outcome, a very unexpected lynch outcome!

I have to confess I was 95% sure Huin would turn out innocent because "Last minute bandwagons are never against wolves" but I'm very happy to have been wrong!

I don't really see basically any reason for a wolf to vote Huin (except possibly something like the second vote if it looked like it wouldn't gain momentum? I need to have a better look how did it actually go) - I mean it would have been an absolutely unnecessary sacrifice from their pov. Even if Mac is a wolf too, he was surely the more expendable one out of the two with the amount of suspicion he'd garnered, while Huin had largely slipped unnoticed until the last minute bandwagon.

Therefore I would look toDay very hard at everyone who voted Mac after Huin got the first vote. Those were the people who protected Huin and there's almost certain to be AT LEAST one wolf in there, possibly more.


edit: xed with both