Let's learn Quenya on the Downs

[Alassë Estel]

Thank you both for replying. I wasn't sure if anyone would. I started with Helge Fauskanger's course. I made it through many lessons, but the farther I went, the less I was understanding. The CoE course is a lttle easier for me to understand. I think that after I finish it, I will give Ardalambion another try. And as to translating sentences, we could just keep it simple to star with and go back and forth for a bit. Whoever gives the right answer first gives the next sentence.

I'll start: Mo lalertë aspata minna Mordor

Hopefully that is grammatically correct. I think it is not too hard, even if there are any mistakes.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Alassë Estel

I'll start: Mo lalertë aspata minna Mordor.

Well, Mo = one, someone, so with that and Mordor I have a guess straight off.

Let's see... la-lerte is not+to be free to, though I can't pin down the tense on lerta-. As-pata a very nice "easily to walk", I think it's an infinitive. Minna is "into" in an older version of the language, but should hold up as mi-nna, in-towards. And Mordor is Mordor. So yes, one cannot simply walk into Mordor; Sauron has insomnia.

I wasn't sure if Mo was used like that, but Tolkien's uses say yes. I'm not sure I'd use lerta- here; "not free to" suggests it's forbidden, whereas *lapole "not able to" makes it clear that it's impossible. That said, an elf would like the sound of lalerta a lot more, so yours might be more historically accurate.

hS

[Alassë Estel]

Yes! That's right!

Your turn.

[Huinesoron]

Out of curiousity, what was the form lerte? Aorist/infinitive?

Since we're doing Mordor:

I tengwar Eldarin, yára lé, apa i lambë i Mordoro ita sinomë váquetuvan quetë.

hS

[Alassë Estel]

Lertë was in the aorist form.

I found the translation rather difficult, hopefully it is at least close.

"The letters of the Eldar, belonging to a former manner, against the tongue of Mordor that which in this place will forbid me to speak".

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Alassë Estel

Lertë was in the aorist form.

I think the aorist of an a-stem still ends in -a.

Originally Posted by Alassë Estel

I found the translation rather difficult, hopefully it is at least close.

"The letters of the Eldar, belonging to a former manner, against the tongue of Mordor that which in this place will forbid me to speak".

It's close, in that you've got all the nouns right; now it's just a matter of making sense out of it.

One thing Tolkien frequently did (especially in Sindarin, but also Quenya) was to leave out forms of "to be" unless they were emphasised. So a sentence like "the apples are red" would be written as "the apples red" - the word order would create an implicit verb in the middle (standard order would be "the red apples"). I think I do this twice, though one is debatable.

There are three possible meanings of "apa"; you need a different one. There are also two meanings of "i", though to be honest they're pretty close.

"Váquet-" is an interesting compound used by Tolkien; "va" is a form of "ava", a negative prefix like la-. "Váquet-" is literally "to not say", but I think the meaning is more "I say I will not". I'm not positive I've used it right, but I couldnt' figure out how to directly negate my verb. (Also, there's a pronoun in "váquetuvan".)

... and the whole thing is a quote.

hS

[Alassë Estel]

A- stem Aorists do keep their a endings. I will pay more attention.

So "I tengwar Eldarin": "The laguage/letters are Elvish"

"Yára lé": an ancient manner/method/way

"Apa": but

"i lambë i Mordoro": The tongue is of Mordor

"Ita": that which, which

"Sinomë": here, this place

"váquetuvan": I will not speak

And if I put all that together: The language is Elvish, an ancient method, but the tongue is that of Mordor which I will not speak in this place.


And if you like memes, this one is relevant:

[Galadriel55]

I have been following along about as nimbly as Gimli on a horse. But I had a question, on reading on of the translations, because I thought I knew the word but I didn't:

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

I tengwar Eldarin, yára lé, apa i lambë i Mordoro ita sinomë váquetuvan quetë.

I saw "ita" and brain matched it to the Quenya form of Idril, IIRC meaning something like "sparkling" or "shining". Here it means "which". Is there a similar sounding root that is used for Idril, or did I make that up?

[Alassë Estel]

Yes there is: íta (notice the accent, versus "ita" with no accent). Here's a link https://www.elfdict.com/wt/501686 , if you like.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Alassë Estel

Thank you for explaining that, I do appreciate it. I am sorry for those mistakes, I hope it isn't too bothersome for you translating like that.

Not a problem at all; it's fun! The reason I've written "I would have said" is that my Quenya isn't perfect either. For instance:

Originally Posted by Alassë Estel

Also, here is a link to "mis", https://www.elfdict.com/wt/110751 .

That is an extremely useful word. It's hard to tell, but I think Eldamo doesn't include PE14 material, so right there is a gap in my "knowledge" (which is basically just reading, I have very little memorised).

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

I saw "ita" and brain matched it to the Quenya form of Idril, IIRC meaning something like "sparkling" or "shining". Here it means "which". Is there a similar sounding root that is used for Idril, or did I make that up?

You're quite right: there are two words "ita". One is a verb, to sparkle; the other is a conjuction formed from i + ta. You could parse it as "that there"; I preferred it over just "i" because I didn't want it confused with the definite article.

Another one for you to play with, featuring a dubious proper name and a double negative:

Ar silumë, equë Nanisáro, minya axanya len: quetë ar ala laláma!

hS

[Alassë Estel]

Alright, first is "Ar silumë,": And now,

Then "Equë Nanisáro,": Says Denethor,

Followed the by perplexing "Minya axanya len": His first rule to me:

After which comes "quetë ar ala laláma!": speak and grow unsound!

The last one was most confusing, as it doesn't make much sense after translating, but that is the best translation I could come to.

Anyway that would be: "And now, says Denethor, his first rule to me: speak and grow unsound!"

I expect that is not quite right, but I am at a loss for the correct answer.