Let's learn Quenya on the Downs

[Galadriel55]

I have been following along about as nimbly as Gimli on a horse. But I had a question, on reading on of the translations, because I thought I knew the word but I didn't:

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

I tengwar Eldarin, yára lé, apa i lambë i Mordoro ita sinomë váquetuvan quetë.

I saw "ita" and brain matched it to the Quenya form of Idril, IIRC meaning something like "sparkling" or "shining". Here it means "which". Is there a similar sounding root that is used for Idril, or did I make that up?

[Alassë Estel]

Yes there is: íta (notice the accent, versus "ita" with no accent). Here's a link https://www.elfdict.com/wt/501686 , if you like.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Alassë Estel

Thank you for explaining that, I do appreciate it. I am sorry for those mistakes, I hope it isn't too bothersome for you translating like that.

Not a problem at all; it's fun! The reason I've written "I would have said" is that my Quenya isn't perfect either. For instance:

Originally Posted by Alassë Estel

Also, here is a link to "mis", https://www.elfdict.com/wt/110751 .

That is an extremely useful word. It's hard to tell, but I think Eldamo doesn't include PE14 material, so right there is a gap in my "knowledge" (which is basically just reading, I have very little memorised).

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

I saw "ita" and brain matched it to the Quenya form of Idril, IIRC meaning something like "sparkling" or "shining". Here it means "which". Is there a similar sounding root that is used for Idril, or did I make that up?

You're quite right: there are two words "ita". One is a verb, to sparkle; the other is a conjuction formed from i + ta. You could parse it as "that there"; I preferred it over just "i" because I didn't want it confused with the definite article.

Another one for you to play with, featuring a dubious proper name and a double negative:

Ar silumë, equë Nanisáro, minya axanya len: quetë ar ala laláma!

hS

[Alassë Estel]

Alright, first is "Ar silumë,": And now,

Then "Equë Nanisáro,": Says Denethor,

Followed the by perplexing "Minya axanya len": His first rule to me:

After which comes "quetë ar ala laláma!": speak and grow unsound!

The last one was most confusing, as it doesn't make much sense after translating, but that is the best translation I could come to.

Anyway that would be: "And now, says Denethor, his first rule to me: speak and grow unsound!"

I expect that is not quite right, but I am at a loss for the correct answer.

[Huinesoron]

You're pretty close, actually. Let's have a look:

"equë" is a lovely weird verb. I often read it as "quoth" or "spake", but "said/says" is just as correct. What's interesting is that it has no tenses - so the English can be past or present.

Check your pronouns in the 'rule' clause. Also take a look at what "axan" can mean - it's a bit stronger than just a rule.

"ala" could mean 'grow', but in this case is the imperative of a different verb I already used in my version of your last answer. (I did say there was a double negative!)

'Unsound' is a literally correct translation of "laláma", but 'sound' here = noise, not solidity. There's a better word for "un-noisy".

hS

[Alassë Estel]

That was most helpful, thank you.

My second answer is: "And now, spake Denethor, her first command to me: speak and do not be silent!"

Is that correct?

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Alassë Estel

My second answer is: "And now, spake Denethor, her first command to me: speak and do not be silent!"

I'll say close enough.

‘And now,’ said Denethor, ‘my first command to you: speak and be not silent! Tell me your full tale, and see that you recall all that you can of Boromir, my son. Sit now and begin!’

You're still getting caught out by those pronouns. There's (uh... obviously) two of them in that clause:

minya axanya len

-nya is the possessive version of -n or -nye. Where -nye would need to be attached to a verb (Canyanye, "I command"), -nya attaches to a noun. Axan-nya is "my command". It's a bit complicated by the double N collapsing into one; my model for this was onya, onna-nya. It may be that *axannya would have been better.

Le- is... well, it's wrong is what it is. ^_^ I took it directly from an example of the dative, but didn't bothered to check if it was singular or plural "you". The correct word would by lyen, the polite version of "you", with a dative suffix - ie, "to you" or "for you". (We know Denethor would have used the polite form, because Tolkien wrote a whole thing about how Pippin didn't, and how that affected the Gondorian perception of him.)

Back to you!

hS

[Alassë Estel]

The pronouns are confusing. But as Gandalf might say "It is a comfort not to be mistaken at all points."

Now for the next one: "I cuvoitë oio ú estelinqua."