Saruman appearing to the Three Walkers - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

09-08-2002, 07:11 PM

The text makes it clear that both Gandalf and Saruman were present in Fangorn forest on the night in question. Greycloaks quote is helpful here.
We all know that Tolkien was extremely deliberate in his choice of words, so I looked in the TT to see if he used any adjectives to describe both the
mysterious "old man" and either Saruman or
Gandalf. I believe I found a deliberate clue
that Tolkien placed in the narrative to establish the identity of this "old man".

Quote: "...there just on the edge of the firelight stood an old bent man, leaning on a staff, and wrapped in a great cloak..."

When Gandalf appears the next morning he is described as "...the old man. All in dirty grey rags" A few pages later he is described as wearing a "grey cloak." It may be that Tolkien deliberately avoids describing Gandalf's cloak as a great cloak. However he later describes Saruman as wearing just such a garment.

TT chapter X Saruman is described as being "swathed in a great cloak."

He also describes the old man as leaning upon a "staff" (no modifier), but describes Gandalf as leaning on a "rough staff". Once again it's possible that Tolkien was trying to draw a distinction here between "Gandalf" and our mysterious "old man".
Saruman's staff is simply described as Black. However one would not be able to tell the color of a staff at night.

However we still have the problem of the hat. Eomer describes Saruman as "hooded and cloaked". But the old man is wearing a wide brimmed hat like Gandalf

Tell me what you all think.

[ September 09, 2002: Message edited by: Ent Hugger ]

09-08-2002, 07:11 PM	#33
Ent Hugger Guest Posts: n/a	The text makes it clear that both Gandalf and Saruman were present in Fangorn forest on the night in question. Greycloaks quote is helpful here. We all know that Tolkien was extremely deliberate in his choice of words, so I looked in the TT to see if he used any adjectives to describe both the mysterious "old man" and either Saruman or Gandalf. I believe I found a deliberate clue that Tolkien placed in the narrative to establish the identity of this "old man". Quote: "...there just on the edge of the firelight stood an old bent man, leaning on a staff, and wrapped in a great cloak..." When Gandalf appears the next morning he is described as "...the old man. All in dirty grey rags" A few pages later he is described as wearing a "grey cloak." It may be that Tolkien deliberately avoids describing Gandalf's cloak as a great cloak. However he later describes Saruman as wearing just such a garment. TT chapter X Saruman is described as being "swathed in a great cloak." He also describes the old man as leaning upon a "staff" (no modifier), but describes Gandalf as leaning on a "rough staff". Once again it's possible that Tolkien was trying to draw a distinction here between "Gandalf" and our mysterious "old man". Saruman's staff is simply described as Black. However one would not be able to tell the color of a staff at night. However we still have the problem of the hat. Eomer describes Saruman as "hooded and cloaked". But the old man is wearing a wide brimmed hat like Gandalf Tell me what you all think. [ September 09, 2002: Message edited by: Ent Hugger ]