The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > The Books
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts


 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Prev Previous Post   Next Post Next
Old 03-16-2004, 03:01 PM   #15
davem
Illustrious Ulair
 
davem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
Posts: 4,240
davem is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.davem is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
But if Illuvatar intervenes, isn't he manipulating events, & thereby taking away the individual's freedom to act? Which simply means that Illuvatar will not allow us complete freedom of action, to do anything we want - not if that would harm others, or the world, or His plans, too much.

There is a danger though in seeing Illuvatar as the same as the God Tolkien worshipped. Put simply, God created Tolkien, but Tolkien invented Illuvatar, so we can't think of Illuvatar as being the same as God. A product of the human imagination cannot be as complex, or as easy to understand, as the Being that created that imagination. In other words, Tolkien may have intended Illuvatar to symbolise God within Middle Earth, but God is bigger than Middle Earth, & God's intentions & actions will be more complex & so, more difficult to understand than Illuvatar's. So, to say that Illuvatar may 'manipulate' people & events in Middle Earth, is not to say that God manipulates people & events in this world. Middle Earth is not an allegory of this world, & an artist must be free to create. Illuvatar has a specific plan for Middle Earth, & works to bring that plan about, directly, & through various agents like the Valar. That plan will not be the same as God's plan for this world (assuming you believe in a God that has a plan), because this world is not Middle Earth, & has a different destiny.
davem is offline   Reply With Quote
 


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:52 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.