How the mighty do fall! - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

lore_master · 03-22-2004, 05:01 PM

I think Tolkein is trying to say, that the world is changing, you cant really trust anymore for the mighty to be mighty, and the weak to be weak.

i also susspect Olorin could have blasted everyone to mandos, if he wanted to, but he didnt because, as we all know, he was the wisest Miar, and knew that if he did, he would probably turn out just like, Sauruman, or Sauron

Nimikôi Angarauko · 03-22-2004, 05:38 PM

hmmmm that just gave me an idea Gandalf vs The World video game the francizing rights alone would make us rich RICH AS DWARVES !!

Mad Baggins · 03-22-2004, 08:40 PM

I think that Tolkien was trying to say that some people, when mighty and powerful, let it get to their heads and then they think that they can do anything. However, when they have gone too far, they can't get out of it because they think that they'll just use their power to get them out of it. But then they get in deeper and deeper and eventually they become corrupted by their actions, and all they think about is becoming more and more powerful.

Nilpaurion Felagund · 03-22-2004, 08:56 PM

I forgot. Not only those who are evil and mighty fall, but...

Quote:

...especially that they[the Valar] had attempted to guard and seclude the Eldar by their might and glory fully revealed...

And thus the mighty, even those who are good, fall.

Which means the only one you could trust with all power is...*drum roll*...Ilúvatar, who chose to watch and wait for good to triumph than to intervene against evil...well, most of the time. But I think that one instance was necessary.

Finwe · 03-22-2004, 09:20 PM

Honestly speaking, expecting someone to not abuse power is asking a lot of them. If you put a gun into a little kid's hands, the first thing that they'll do is run off and shoot someone (or something). They immediately want to test their limits. Adults are just older version of little kids. If you give them power, they will immediately start trying to test their limits and if they find none, they will continue to abuse their power until they do find some. We need limits in our lives, physical, mental, emotional, etc. Even though I'm a normal, rebellious teenager, I still say that. Societal, parental, and individual limits are the only things that keep us "grounded." Without them, we would constantly be rebelling to seek out limits. This is why many kids who "experiment" with various forms of rebellion (major euphemism there) are generally from lenient homes, whereas most of the ones from the really straitlaced homes are often simply too afraid of their parents to do anything. (This is merely a generalization, don't jump on my case. If you come from a lenient household and you aren't a rebel, then kudos to you!) Without some form of limits placed by someone higher on the pecking order, we'd go completely crazy. (Rather like that Ar-Pharazon chap.)

Nilpaurion Felagund · 03-22-2004, 09:32 PM

Golden Boy did learn his limits...too late.

And that's for stealing Tar-Míriel!

Finwe · 03-22-2004, 09:53 PM

You see... and then they get so absurdly predictable! Everyone knows that once you start messing with the ladies, you're a gone case!

03-22-2004, 05:01 PM	#1
lore_master Wight Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Valhalla Posts: 116	I think Tolkein is trying to say, that the world is changing, you cant really trust anymore for the mighty to be mighty, and the weak to be weak. i also susspect Olorin could have blasted everyone to mandos, if he wanted to, but he didnt because, as we all know, he was the wisest Miar, and knew that if he did, he would probably turn out just like, Sauruman, or Sauron __________________ As you go the way of life, you will see a great chasm. Jump. It is not as wide as you think

03-22-2004, 08:40 PM	#3
Mad Baggins Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: A place where after thunder golden showers come falling like a rain of flowers. Posts: 371	I think that Tolkien was trying to say that some people, when mighty and powerful, let it get to their heads and then they think that they can do anything. However, when they have gone too far, they can't get out of it because they think that they'll just use their power to get them out of it. But then they get in deeper and deeper and eventually they become corrupted by their actions, and all they think about is becoming more and more powerful. __________________ I like buying snacks from a vending machine because food is better when it falls. Sometimes at the grocery, I'll drop a candy bar so that it will achieve its maximum flavor potential.

03-22-2004, 09:20 PM	#5
Finwe Deathless Sun Join Date: May 2003 Location: The Royal Suite in the Halls of Mandos Posts: 2,609	Honestly speaking, expecting someone to not abuse power is asking a lot of them. If you put a gun into a little kid's hands, the first thing that they'll do is run off and shoot someone (or something). They immediately want to test their limits. Adults are just older version of little kids. If you give them power, they will immediately start trying to test their limits and if they find none, they will continue to abuse their power until they do find some. We need limits in our lives, physical, mental, emotional, etc. Even though I'm a normal, rebellious teenager, I still say that. Societal, parental, and individual limits are the only things that keep us "grounded." Without them, we would constantly be rebelling to seek out limits. This is why many kids who "experiment" with various forms of rebellion (major euphemism there) are generally from lenient homes, whereas most of the ones from the really straitlaced homes are often simply too afraid of their parents to do anything. (This is merely a generalization, don't jump on my case. If you come from a lenient household and you aren't a rebel, then kudos to you!) Without some form of limits placed by someone higher on the pecking order, we'd go completely crazy. (Rather like that Ar-Pharazon chap.) __________________ But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.

03-22-2004, 09:32 PM	#6
Nilpaurion Felagund Scion of The Faithful Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: The brink, where hope and despair are akin. [The Philippines] Posts: 5,312	Ar-Pharazôn Golden Boy did learn his limits...too late. And that's for stealing Tar-Míriel! __________________ フェンリス鴨 (Fenrisu Kamo) The plot, cut, defeated. I intend to copy this sig forever - so far so good...

03-22-2004, 09:53 PM	#7
Finwe Deathless Sun Join Date: May 2003 Location: The Royal Suite in the Halls of Mandos Posts: 2,609	You see... and then they get so absurdly predictable! Everyone knows that once you start messing with the ladies, you're a gone case! __________________ But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.

03-22-2004, 05:38 PM	#2
Nimikôi Angarauko Pile O'Bones Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: my realm is in the Void Posts: 20	hmmmm that just gave me an idea Gandalf vs The World video game the francizing rights alone would make us rich RICH AS DWARVES !!