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Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page |
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#1 | |||||||||||
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Illustrious Ulair
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
Posts: 4,240
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(Yes, this is a long post - anyone who feels daunted, please skip it, & just pretend it never happened!)
Well, after two, on the surface, slow, uneventful chapters, things start moving! We enter the Old Forest (I can hear the screams from some readers now - ‘Tom Bombadil- ARRGH!!!!!’) We are now entering strange territory - the Old Forest & Old Tom. Where to begin? Verlyn Flieger’s essay ‘Taking the Part of Trees’ (in JRR Tolkien & his Literary Resonances offers some insight into the nature of the Old Forest: Quote:
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Yet, what struck me more forcefully re-reading this chapter, was the way its not simply OMW, or even the trees themselves, which are the threat - the whole forest, even the earth itself, seems to actively conspire. The land seems to change shape in order to direct the hobbits to the centre of the wood, seeming to become boggy, or solid, opening into gullies, raising itself up, lowering itself down as necessary. Even the air itself seems maliciously to ‘drug’ them, while the trees try to sing them to sleep so that OMW can consume them. And Tolkien communicates this dreamlikeness in some of the most beautiful prose in literature: Quote:
But then the weirdest thing of all happens - Jolly Tom appears! Actually, the way he’s described, he seems to rise out of the earth: Quote:
Brian Rosebury, in Tolkien: A Cultural Phenomenon, describes Tom thus: Quote:
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*One possibility which Flieger doesn’t explore is Tolkien’s ‘conceit’ - that LotR is a translation of the Red book of Westmarch - it was written by hobbits from their perspective. Tolkien himself may ‘take the part of trees as against all their enemies’ (letter 319) but that doesn’t mean that the hobbits do - a ‘well ordered & well farmed countryside’, which they love, requires the clearing of natural woodland - the two - as Flieger points out, cannot co-exist - one must be sacrificed in favour of the other. Treebeard may mourn: Quote:
Frodo’s song, ending with the line ‘For east or west all woods must fail’ wouldn’t be the kind of thing Treebeard would approve of - & nor, we can assert, would Tolkien.Merry's suggestion of tuning & giving the trees a rousing chorus of the song when they get out of the forest, in the light of the hobbits rampant destruction of the trees, is simply adding insult to injury. Perhaps Tolkien is making a subtle & easily missed point when he has Merry & Pippin enter Fangorn & meet Treebeard. Merry has a lesson to learn if he is to become Master of Buckland in the future, & have responsibility for the Old Forest.
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“Everything was an object. If you killed a dwarf you could use it as a weapon – it was no different to other large heavy objects." Last edited by davem; 07-26-2004 at 07:27 AM. |
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#2 | ||
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Late Istar
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,224
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This is the first real adventure chapter in the book; so far we have had the Black Riders appear threateningly from time to time, but that threat has not yet been realized. It is something of a twist, then, to more or less forget the Black Riders for a chapter (indeed, for three chapters) and to suddenly put the Hobbits into an unrelated bit of trouble. In fact there is something rather odd about it, I think. Few authors would so carefully build up the threat of the Nazgul, and go to great lengths to illustrate the nature of the Ring and get its story started, only to drop these threads almost completely after just five chapters and present us with a three-chapter interlude concerning other things. One could (as Ralph Bakshi and Peter Jackson know very well) simply cut these three chapters out without creating many problems for the later narrative.
Why does Tolkien do this? I think the real answer is simply that, at the time he wrote these chapters, he didn't know any better. That is to say, he had not yet worked out the whole plot and in fact had not yet realized that LotR was going to be much different from The Hobbit. The Old Forest was conceived of as just an adventure that Frodo has along the way, for originally it was simply to be a story about Frodo's adventures. But of course later, when Tolkien did understand what LotR was going to be, he retained these chapters. I would guess that this was partly just habit - once the narrative got going, he never made any huge changes to parts he'd already written. A more commercially-minded author would probably have deleted the Old Forest, Tom Bombadil, and the Barrow-downs since they don't directly concern the main plot of the book. But I think that there is value in these chapters as they are, as Tolkien must have realized. First of all, they are simply interesting in themselves. But that's not quite a sufficient explanation, for one can imagine any number of miscellaneous adventures that are interesting in themselves and yet were not and should not have been added to the text. I think one virtue of these chapters is that identified by Tuor of Gondolin: Quote:
Another thing this interlude does is to extend the threat of the Nazgul by delaying its resolution. Chapters 3, 4, and 5 have set up the Black Riders as a threat and we know that it will only be a matter of time before they begin to do more than simply sniff and scream. The reader anticipates some kind of confrontation with the Black Riders. That anticipation is firmly in place by the end of chapter 5. So through chapters 6, 7, and 8, on top of everything else, the reader is thinking about the Black Riders and still anticipating an eventual confrontation. To illustrate this point, imagine how much poorer Book I would be if these three chapters were placed after the Weathertop encounter. And a final justification for not excising these chapters: while they are almost unrelated to the central plot, they are not completely so. There is the obvious relation, for example, between the Old Forest and Fangorn. As for chapter 6 itself, what struck me on rereading it was the way Tolkien slowly builds up the tension right to the climax of the chapter. This is one of his chief strengths, I think; it's already been noted in relation to the Black Riders in chapters 3, 4, and 5. Here, we begin with the Old Forest being more or less just a forest, if one which, according to Merry, has queer things living in it. Then we find that the trees bar their way and make Pippin uneasy. Then Frodo's song seems to disturb them. Then briefly the tension is eased when they stand at the top of the hill and look out across the forest. Then they go on, making good progress at first, but slowly finding that the forest is forcing them in its desired direction. Then they become completely lost and unable to choose their own direction at all. Finally they arrive in the Withywindle valley itself and struggle with a strange drowsiness. Then suddenly Old Man Willow strikes, and in a brief space we have some minor heroics by Sam and the appearance of Tom Bombadil. Looking at it this way, what Tolkien does is present a series of minor incidents each of which alters the tension in some way. Most add to it, a little bit at a time. One detracts from it - which only makes its eventual reappearance more striking. And only at the very climax does anything actually happen. A mistake too many authors make is to think that the reader is conscious only of what is happening at the moment, so that they think a constant level of action must be maintained for the story to be interesting. Tolkien realizes that readers have a memory and also a sense of anticipation, so that each of the little incidents he presents adds to the tension. Davem wrote: Quote:
Last edited by Aiwendil; 07-29-2004 at 03:15 PM. |
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#3 |
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A Mere Boggart
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: under the bed
Posts: 4,737
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Firstly, I can't comprehend what the book would be like without chapters 6 to 8, they add in, for want of a better word, a lot of 'magic' to the tale. And what's great about this 'magic' is that it is not of the hocus-pocus, casting spells type, but of the ancient, earth-based variety. There are sections later in the book which could also have easily been left out, e.g. the Woses, but they add to the sense of ancient history in Middle Earth.
Old Man Willow is a frightening figure, made all the more real when you think about the properties and uses of willow. It is a tree that can be chopped up and turned into a fence, which will mysteriously take root and sprout leaves. It is the tree which was (allegedly) used to construct the Wicker Man. And, in some British towns where they celebrate May Day with dancers dressed as 'Jack in the green', they use willow to make the framework for the costume. Jack in the green is who I think of when I read about Tom Bombadil. It's probably been said a thousand times before, but to me he is The Green Man, the woodland spirit. He is the master of the woodlands and Old Man Willow, but I'm getting dangerously close to straying into the next chapter here. Getting back to the chapter, I love the sense of how being lost in a woodland feels. When the path disappears, Mery is convinced that the trees are conspiring to hide it, and this is how it does feel when you get lost while out walking. The hobbits sense movements and sounds as though the trees are moving, which is another eerie sensation that can grip you. As for fitting into the narrative, this chapter and the following two are technically well placed as they provide a transition from the world the hobbits (and readers) have got to know and feel comfortable in, to the wider world, untamed and altogether more dangerous. |
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#4 |
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Guest
Posts: n/a
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I agree that in this chapter we see the first contact with the unknown for the hobbits and I think it's nicely symbolised by the passage through the gate and the finality of its closing: with this act they leave behind all that is familiar and comforting to walk into and towards danger - the mists that envelope them are a clear (no pun intended !
) signal for this.What I'm not really sure of is the evil intent of the Old Forest - apart from Old Man Willow we never actually see the trees moving or actively doing something: I wonder whether this is just the product of the hobbits' imagination, aided by Merry's quite scary tale and combined with the strange environment they find themselves into. It might seem that the hobbits, taking with them their fears and doubts (and maybe some guilty feelings about the actions taken by their compatriots against the forest) give substance to the impression that nature is conspiring against them. After all, when Old Man Willows exerts his "charms" the only one keeping his wits about him is Sam - the most levelheaded (and less imaginative ?) of the four. |
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#5 | ||
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Illusionary Holbytla
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 7,547
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Hi, Fimbrethil, welcome to our discussion and the Downs!
In this chapter something struck me that I haven't noticed before. There was a certain 'magic' about it, very akin to that of the Hobbit. I think this is partly because it gets away from the darker aspects of the story (the Ring, the Black Riders) and while the adventure they have in the chapter is certainly dangerous, it is of the "simpler" sort. Even though the mood surrounding the Forest is very dark indeed - it goes from extremely foggy (somehow a very fitting way to begin the adventure) to a dark, queer sojourn through the Forest - the chapter seems almost light, especially compared to the rest of the book. Part of this is perhaps Merry's relative familiarity with the Forest and his way of taking the Forest so lightly (that is how it has always seemed to me anyway). Something else that hadn't occurred to me in recent readings is the image of the path by the Withywindle that we are given. The scene is much more vivid right now than many images I get from books (being that I am one who does not generally get images when I read). Quote:
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#6 | ||||
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Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Where you want me to be
Posts: 1,036
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Aiwendil said:
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Also, this passage seems to be a prelude, or taste, of Fangorn Forest later on in the book. The same type of forest, with dangerous creatures (i.e. Old Man Willow) and wild rivers, as well as trees that can move and 'talk', besides being an extension of Fangorn near the Shire, anyway, the Old Forest on the borders of Buckland sets up nicely what is going to be a major factor later on- Fangorn Forest- although we don't know it yet. Tom Bombadil and Treebeard also seem to have a lot in common with me- both old, interested in nature (an understatement) and knowledgeable about the Elder Days. Even at the very start, we can see that Tom is a very merry and kind fellow by assisting all the hobbits- Quote:
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Now let the song begin! Let us sing together Of sun, stars, moon and mist, rain and cloudy weather, Light on the budding leafe, dew on the feather, Wind on the open hill, bells on the heather, Reeds by the shady pool, lillies on the water: Old Tom Bombadil and the River-daughter! Delightful.
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Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta. |
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#7 |
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Laconic Loreman
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In the first beginning chapters almost every chapter whenever the hobbits are in some sort of trouble they find a safe "haven" or house to rest at, Farmer Maggot's, Crickhollow, Tom Bombadil, Gildor's elves, Strider, Rivendell. Then past Rivendell as they start getting closer to Mount Doom, the "friendly" people start fading. You have Galadriel and Faramir, that's all I can remember. Then once leaving Faramir and entering into Mordor, they're on their own, no more "friendly" people to come give them a nice place to sleep at, or warm beds, well cooked meals...etc. If you look at some of the troubles in the beginning chapters, the Black Riders numerous times, Old man Willow, the Barrow-wright. The troubles towards the end are Shelob, Orcs at Cirith Ungol, Gollum, destroying the ring, all are probably "bigger" problems then the ones from the beginning, and also theres no one there to help them out they have to overcome it themself. Showing The growth of the Hobbits.
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