Reclaiming a Throne - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Fingolfin II · 07-31-2004, 07:55 PM

Whoops, I seem to have had that the other way around- what I meant was that Gil-galad was the son of Fingon and therefore he should have become king before Turgon, but he didn't as he was too young.

Evisse the Blue · 08-01-2004, 03:03 PM

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Eldarion becomes the ruler of all the Elf-lands in Middle-Earth when Aragorn dies

That would mean that in the Fourth Age all Middle Earth was ruled by him, except for Rohan and the Shire. Freaky, really...
And after he died / relinquished power, did his heir rule over the Elf-lands as well? Assuming there were still Elf-lands to speak of...

Tuor of Gondolin · 08-01-2004, 03:42 PM

I don't believe Aragorn's rule extended to Rhovannion, or to the far east and south. One can imagine Gondor influence fairly quickly contracting east of the Anduin, with perhaps South Gondor again "a debatable land."

Voralphion · 08-01-2004, 07:12 PM

Firstly, Elrond could never have become high king as he was descended from Turgon, (and hence Finwe) through a female line, ie Idril. I'm sure I've seen that for the kingship the descent has to be a direct male descent. As to what would have happened in Valinor in respect to Finarfin, Finarfin was never king of the noldor in Valinor, it is just said that he ruled the remnant of the Noldor he never took the title of king.

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From what I know of the character of Elrond I do not think he would have. Firstly is he bound by the curse of Feanor

No he wasn't subject to any ban, as he didn't have anything to do with the rebellion of the noldor as he wasn't born yet. Galadriel was subject to a ban because she was prominant in the rebellion.

Mithalwen · 08-02-2004, 11:19 AM

Don't forget that various previous kings may well have been released from Mandos by that point .....it would have been hard to imagine Gil-Galad being held very long since he was born in Middle Earth wasn't he? And basically spent his entire life fighting Sauron and building links between the Edain and the Eldar.... We know that Finrod "walks with his father" ....... would not Fingolfin's valour have earned him also swift release?

The Perky Ent · 08-02-2004, 11:48 AM

True, but then there's the chance there never will be another king. For example, if Mandos decided, "Hey, that dude Finwe was really brave. He deserves to go back" then Finwe could become king and deny all of his heirs. I don't think that would be the case. And Voralphion, if only male decendants can become king, explain the Kings and Queens of Numenor The elfs could have easily done what Tar-Aldarion did and change the rules of sucession.

Voralphion · 08-02-2004, 07:33 PM

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And Voralphion, if only male decendants can become king, explain the Kings and Queens of Numenor The elfs could have easily done what Tar-Aldarion did and change the rules of sucession

True they could have, but they didn't.
Anyway, by the time of the third age, a high king of the noldor probably wasn't necessary. The title of high king came about due to the fact that the noldor needed a united resistance against morgoth. After morgoth was overthrown Gil Galad remained so he kept his title. After the last alliance both Morgoth and sauron were overthrown and the elves had no real enemy (at that time anyway) so the position of high king was no longer needed in order to lead a united resistance.
The title of high king was only used in middle earth, and so anyone released from mandos would not be a contender for the position. Anyway, Finwe was never coming out so the only one who could claim leadership of the noldor was Fingolfin.

07-31-2004, 07:55 PM	#1
Fingolfin II Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Where you want me to be Posts: 1,036	Whoops, I seem to have had that the other way around- what I meant was that Gil-galad was the son of Fingon and therefore he should have become king before Turgon, but he didn't as he was too young. __________________ Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta.

08-01-2004, 03:42 PM	#3
Tuor of Gondolin Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Pennsylvania, WtR, passed Sarn Gebir: Above the rapids (1239 miles) BtR, passed Black Rider Stopping Place (31 miles) Posts: 1,548	I don't believe Aragorn's rule extended to Rhovannion, or to the far east and south. One can imagine Gondor influence fairly quickly contracting east of the Anduin, with perhaps South Gondor again "a debatable land." __________________ Aure Entuluva!

08-02-2004, 11:19 AM	#5
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,461	Don't forget that various previous kings may well have been released from Mandos by that point .....it would have been hard to imagine Gil-Galad being held very long since he was born in Middle Earth wasn't he? And basically spent his entire life fighting Sauron and building links between the Edain and the Eldar.... We know that Finrod "walks with his father" ....... would not Fingolfin's valour have earned him also swift release? __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

08-02-2004, 11:48 AM	#6
The Perky Ent Maniacal Mage Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Setting sail for Umbar, with Firefoot at my side! Posts: 3,297	True, but then there's the chance there never will be another king. For example, if Mandos decided, "Hey, that dude Finwe was really brave. He deserves to go back" then Finwe could become king and deny all of his heirs. I don't think that would be the case. And Voralphion, if only male decendants can become king, explain the Kings and Queens of Numenor The elfs could have easily done what Tar-Aldarion did and change the rules of sucession. __________________ 'But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.'