The Soddit - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

davem · 08-30-2004, 09:37 AM

Haven't read it, but I know the author has another 'parody' out soon - The Sellamillion:http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/...113471-9748605

I did laugh a couple of times at Bored of the Rings, but this whole parody thing is not for me, I'm afraid.

Bêthberry · 08-30-2004, 09:57 AM

That's an interesting comment, davem. What is it about parody that attracts some and not others? I might direct this question to Estelyn as well, who bought and talked about this particular book during our meetings in London and who of course is known to dabble occasionally in parody of her own.

Why do some fans enjoy parodies of what they like and others not? This is not to say either perspective is right or wrong, but simply to consider some of the things we look for and value when we read. Does parody allow us some gentle distance from something that we might otherwise become obsessive about or does it suggest somehow a critique of its original? Is parody an inferior genre in that it clearly "depends" upon a precursor text? I don't think there is, in theory at least, a hard and fast line between parody and satire, but do general readers make such a distinction?

Saurreg · 08-30-2004, 10:24 AM

Hmm, Webster's states that both parody and satire are the same. A "spoof" of the original. Maybe you can tell me what's the difference Bêthberry because I'm afraid of misinterpreting your post.

I know two types of people who like parodies; the first are people who are acquainted with the original work the parody is based on and would not mind viewing the work in an askewed perspective for a good laugh or to view the original work in another angle as additional food for thought. These people like the original work but are generally casual and easy-going over it. Not "too-into-it" and "taking-it-easy" are the orders of the day here.

The second group of people are more disturbing because they did not like the orginal work and hope that the parody likens the work to their point of view (courage in numbers maybe?) and reinforce their prejudice. Such people are rare but they do exist.

Similarly I can think of two types of people who distain parodies. The first group are fervert diehard royalists of the author or the ideas pertaining in the original work. They are so completely enamored/enticed that they view any askewed or even slightly different interpretation of the work as "sacrilegious blasphemy" because it threatens their own convictions in their beliefs and ideas on the work. Such xenophobic attitude may stem from fear of being "wrong" in their current thoughts and also perhaps the desire of keeping what little self-solace one can derive from such beliefs and convictions.

The second group of people are what I term as "chivalrists" They believe that it is morally wrong to take the work of another and twist it either to insult or make fun of. These chivalrists are either traditional in mindset or are generally compassionate and sympathetic. Alternatively, chivalrists could behave they way they do out of cowardice or insecurity. If it could happen to them, it could happen to you. So let's strike first.

Hookbill the Goomba · 08-30-2004, 10:26 AM

I was not sure about Board of the Rings, sure its a parody, which normally I enjoy, but this did not seem... ... ... how shall I put this... ... ... ... 'Real’ enough. If you know what I mean. If you don't, let me explain.
The kind of thing I was expecting was I parody that tried to Look real, but wasn't. If you have ever seen "The Day today" you may understand this a little more.
This Sellamillion, looks interesting, but will probably be more of the same.

I once wrote my own parody of Sillm, it was called, "The World of the Lords" and went a little something like this;

Quote:

The World of the Lords
By J.R.R.R. Arrrr

Moreover, Olméth was warming at the foot of the mount; his hairs were teared with flame, and so summoned he the creature Swolfthron, the beast rose from the deepest chasms to the very rocks upon ground, which did shake vibratively even stone, hence his sword was lost once more; and, to the end of discovering the whereabouts of his companion Morolen, did he willingly fall through the very fires before him without a single word. "Fall thee, for I shall strike down both thy legs!" cried Lögorithm, but not even the loudest of them could bring back the stronghold of Blüch-Holgerin, save the Great Boil of Shrîph-Dûrmaláth, whose eyes were torn with bleach.

Do you see? Do not worry If you don't understand it, your not suposed to.

dancing spawn of ungoliant · 08-30-2004, 12:13 PM

I've read parts of that book, or browsed it through, but on that base I'd say that the style of the book is very distinguishing from cover to cover.

Some of the "jokes" are funny and it's amusing to read how the author crystalizes the original plot and characters. But there are, to my taste, too many "jokes" I consider to represent bad humour. At times it's very lame when there are given some "sexual spice" to the characters and chapters. It looks like the author was forcing the reader to laugh. I don't like the twisting of the characters' names either. It just looks too overdone.

I think the Soddit is worth flipping through anyway. A few years ago I couldn't stand any parodies mocking LotR but one has to learn not to take them so seriously. Nowadays I can get good laughs about some of those parodies.

Lalwendë · 08-30-2004, 12:23 PM

I wouldn't say parody and satire are the same thing, although sometimes they can be combined. "The Soddit", "Bored of the Rings", "Barry Trotter", these are all straight parodies as they're based on a pre-existing work. Another example might be where French & Saunders take off famous films. A true satire is a comment on something in history or society, such as Kurt Vonnegut's novels or "Gulliver's Travels". Comedy shows such as The Day Today combine both - parodies of characters and TV formats with satirical comment.

Now, I find parody quite funny, but I also find it gets tiresome after a while, and I start to wonder why the writer or comedian could not come up with their own original material. For that reason I've been really wary of the Tolkien parodies, I suspect they would be kind of...unsatisfying, although I wouldn't say an absolute no to reading them.

When certain comedians take off LOTR it can be funny. I found the Avid Merrion sketches quite funny - although obviously not written by someone with real knowledge of the books or films. And I like the Orange cinema advert with Sean Astin. All in all, I think the best parodies are the briefest ones.

davem · 08-30-2004, 12:44 PM

I suppose Lalwende has said it all. Generally I find parody boring & unconvincing, but most of all its cheap. I distinguish it from satire, I suppose, which I usually understand to be more subtle.

Its Tolkien parodies that don't interest me specifically, as they are almost never well done. Of course, there are always exceptions!

At Oxonmoot two years ago we were presented with The Reduced Silmarillion, which was hilarious, because it was written & performed by people who knew the book. Its difficult to give a true flavour of the thing, but all the parts were played by men (Luthien Tinuvial being played by a guy in a blonde wig was something to see), Ulmo was a three foot high inflatable penguin, & in the Last Battle Morgoth's dragons were paper aeroplanes. Farce, yes, but deeply moving in its own way

(& to be repeated at Tolkien 2005.) Though, to be honest, what I especially liked about that was that it depended on the audience having a real knowledge of the book.

I suppose my position is that I'm not against parodies as such, they're just not my thing.

Mithalwen · 08-30-2004, 12:47 PM

I did like Bored of the Rings - with the proviso that not being American or quite old enough... some of the jokes missed their mark ...whereas the French and Saunders and Dead Ringers skits made me howl with laughter as did the online secret diaries ..... I bough the Barry Trotter but couldn't get past the first few pages so I didn't go for the soddit.... However I must admit that I have indulged in parody writing in my time

Hookbill the Goomba · 08-30-2004, 01:09 PM

Ladies and gentlemen, we apologise for the following awful joke.

Was going to read the Prelude to Board of the Rings, but thought "Ah Soddit!"

Right now that's out of the way.

There are two types of Parodies, a direct parody, and an indirect parody. The Latter is a humorous take on a particular genre, where as a direct parody is what it says, directly parodying a single thing, Book/ TV program/ Film ect.
I think it’s fairly obvious which one this is...

Apparently the Sellamillion (Sell a million, w00t! Just noticed that!) Will not be as a direct parody as the others were. Although there will be a parody of Beren and Luthien. The rest will be made up gibberish I expect.

Encaitare · 08-30-2004, 03:48 PM

Hookbill-- Aw, it wasn't that bad...

I'd like to read the three parodies but I'm just not sure if I can get them at Barnes and Noble!

Anyway, it's true that most parodies are done pretty poorly. But I have read a few that have made me laugh hysterically, my favorites being a monosyllabic version of FotR and the "Gat Gandizzle" parody over at stupidring.com which makes everyone act all "gangsta." I can see, though, why some people are against such parodies, as they are pretty much belittlement of the original work.

08-30-2004, 09:37 AM	#1
davem Illustrious Ulair Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties Posts: 4,240	Haven't read it, but I know the author has another 'parody' out soon - The Sellamillion:http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/...113471-9748605 I did laugh a couple of times at Bored of the Rings, but this whole parody thing is not for me, I'm afraid. __________________ “Everything was an object. If you killed a dwarf you could use it as a weapon – it was no different to other large heavy objects."

08-30-2004, 09:57 AM	#2
Bêthberry Cryptic Aura Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 6,003	That's an interesting comment, davem. What is it about parody that attracts some and not others? I might direct this question to Estelyn as well, who bought and talked about this particular book during our meetings in London and who of course is known to dabble occasionally in parody of her own. Why do some fans enjoy parodies of what they like and others not? This is not to say either perspective is right or wrong, but simply to consider some of the things we look for and value when we read. Does parody allow us some gentle distance from something that we might otherwise become obsessive about or does it suggest somehow a critique of its original? Is parody an inferior genre in that it clearly "depends" upon a precursor text? I don't think there is, in theory at least, a hard and fast line between parody and satire, but do general readers make such a distinction? __________________ I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away. Last edited by Bêthberry; 08-30-2004 at 10:02 AM.

08-30-2004, 10:24 AM	#3
Saurreg Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: In self imposed exile... Posts: 465	Hmm, Webster's states that both parody and satire are the same. A "spoof" of the original. Maybe you can tell me what's the difference Bêthberry because I'm afraid of misinterpreting your post. I know two types of people who like parodies; the first are people who are acquainted with the original work the parody is based on and would not mind viewing the work in an askewed perspective for a good laugh or to view the original work in another angle as additional food for thought. These people like the original work but are generally casual and easy-going over it. Not "too-into-it" and "taking-it-easy" are the orders of the day here. The second group of people are more disturbing because they did not like the orginal work and hope that the parody likens the work to their point of view (courage in numbers maybe?) and reinforce their prejudice. Such people are rare but they do exist. Similarly I can think of two types of people who distain parodies. The first group are fervert diehard royalists of the author or the ideas pertaining in the original work. They are so completely enamored/enticed that they view any askewed or even slightly different interpretation of the work as "sacrilegious blasphemy" because it threatens their own convictions in their beliefs and ideas on the work. Such xenophobic attitude may stem from fear of being "wrong" in their current thoughts and also perhaps the desire of keeping what little self-solace one can derive from such beliefs and convictions. The second group of people are what I term as "chivalrists" They believe that it is morally wrong to take the work of another and twist it either to insult or make fun of. These chivalrists are either traditional in mindset or are generally compassionate and sympathetic. Alternatively, chivalrists could behave they way they do out of cowardice or insecurity. If it could happen to them, it could happen to you. So let's strike first. __________________ "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. " ~Voltaire

08-30-2004, 12:13 PM	#5
dancing spawn of ungoliant Mischievous Candle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: So near to Russia, so far from Japan, quite a long way from Cairo, lots of miles from Vietnam. Posts: 1,234	I've read parts of that book, or browsed it through, but on that base I'd say that the style of the book is very distinguishing from cover to cover. Some of the "jokes" are funny and it's amusing to read how the author crystalizes the original plot and characters. But there are, to my taste, too many "jokes" I consider to represent bad humour. At times it's very lame when there are given some "sexual spice" to the characters and chapters. It looks like the author was forcing the reader to laugh. I don't like the twisting of the characters' names either. It just looks too overdone. I think the Soddit is worth flipping through anyway. A few years ago I couldn't stand any parodies mocking LotR but one has to learn not to take them so seriously. Nowadays I can get good laughs about some of those parodies. __________________ Fenris Wolf Last edited by dancing spawn of ungoliant; 08-31-2004 at 01:26 PM.

08-30-2004, 12:44 PM	#7
davem Illustrious Ulair Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties Posts: 4,240	I suppose Lalwende has said it all. Generally I find parody boring & unconvincing, but most of all its cheap. I distinguish it from satire, I suppose, which I usually understand to be more subtle. Its Tolkien parodies that don't interest me specifically, as they are almost never well done. Of course, there are always exceptions! At Oxonmoot two years ago we were presented with The Reduced Silmarillion, which was hilarious, because it was written & performed by people who knew the book. Its difficult to give a true flavour of the thing, but all the parts were played by men (Luthien Tinuvial being played by a guy in a blonde wig was something to see), Ulmo was a three foot high inflatable penguin, & in the Last Battle Morgoth's dragons were paper aeroplanes. Farce, yes, but deeply moving in its own way (& to be repeated at Tolkien 2005.) Though, to be honest, what I especially liked about that was that it depended on the audience having a real knowledge of the book. I suppose my position is that I'm not against parodies as such, they're just not my thing. __________________ “Everything was an object. If you killed a dwarf you could use it as a weapon – it was no different to other large heavy objects."

08-30-2004, 12:23 PM	#6
Lalwendë A Mere Boggart Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: under the bed Posts: 4,737	I wouldn't say parody and satire are the same thing, although sometimes they can be combined. "The Soddit", "Bored of the Rings", "Barry Trotter", these are all straight parodies as they're based on a pre-existing work. Another example might be where French & Saunders take off famous films. A true satire is a comment on something in history or society, such as Kurt Vonnegut's novels or "Gulliver's Travels". Comedy shows such as The Day Today combine both - parodies of characters and TV formats with satirical comment. Now, I find parody quite funny, but I also find it gets tiresome after a while, and I start to wonder why the writer or comedian could not come up with their own original material. For that reason I've been really wary of the Tolkien parodies, I suspect they would be kind of...unsatisfying, although I wouldn't say an absolute no to reading them. When certain comedians take off LOTR it can be funny. I found the Avid Merrion sketches quite funny - although obviously not written by someone with real knowledge of the books or films. And I like the Orange cinema advert with Sean Astin. All in all, I think the best parodies are the briefest ones.

08-30-2004, 12:47 PM	#8
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,461	I did like Bored of the Rings - with the proviso that not being American or quite old enough... some of the jokes missed their mark ...whereas the French and Saunders and Dead Ringers skits made me howl with laughter as did the online secret diaries ..... I bough the Barry Trotter but couldn't get past the first few pages so I didn't go for the soddit.... However I must admit that I have indulged in parody writing in my time __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

08-30-2004, 01:09 PM	#9
Hookbill the Goomba Alive without breath Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: On A Cold Wind To Valhalla Posts: 5,912	Ladies and gentlemen, we apologise for the following awful joke. Was going to read the Prelude to Board of the Rings, but thought "Ah Soddit!" Right now that's out of the way. There are two types of Parodies, a direct parody, and an indirect parody. The Latter is a humorous take on a particular genre, where as a direct parody is what it says, directly parodying a single thing, Book/ TV program/ Film ect. I think it’s fairly obvious which one this is... Apparently the Sellamillion (Sell a million, w00t! Just noticed that!) Will not be as a direct parody as the others were. Although there will be a parody of Beren and Luthien. The rest will be made up gibberish I expect. __________________ I think that if you want facts, then The Downer Newspaper is probably the place to go. I know! I read it once. THE PHANTOM AND ALIEN: The Legend of the Golden Bus Ticket...

08-30-2004, 03:48 PM	#10
Encaitare Bittersweet Symphony Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: On the jolly starship Enterprise Posts: 1,814	Hookbill-- Aw, it wasn't that bad... I'd like to read the three parodies but I'm just not sure if I can get them at Barnes and Noble! Anyway, it's true that most parodies are done pretty poorly. But I have read a few that have made me laugh hysterically, my favorites being a monosyllabic version of FotR and the "Gat Gandizzle" parody over at stupidring.com which makes everyone act all "gangsta." I can see, though, why some people are against such parodies, as they are pretty much belittlement of the original work.