ONLY The Silmarillion

[vanwalossien]

If the Silmarilion had been the most important religious manuscript on the planet, I for one would pay more attention in the religion lessons at school
Actually, the first time I read the SILM I commented to a friend of mine who was reading it at the same time that it reminded me and awful lot of the old testament, because there were so many names to remember...
I think that if the SILM had been written down in Quenya a couple of thousand years ago after having been passed down orally for ages, it could very well have had the same position as any other religious book.
As we approached modern times the Eru-ism (or whatever) probably would've evolved a lot like Christianity, because the two are quite similar (hardly a surprise as Tolkien was a Catholic), but I just have this one thought: In the Silm there are female Valar, and there are no terrible sins committed by women, so perhaps the Eru-ism would've avoided a few gender discriminations that Christianity has caused or supported in the past.

PS: a year or so ago, there was talk in Norway about opening for moslems to be allowed to swear at the Coran instead of at the Norwegian laws or the Bible when witnessing in trials. A humorist commented drily "yeah, well, the Lord of the Rings is also a very important book for lots of people"

[littlemanpoet]

You make a good point, vanwalossien, regarding women. Hebrew culture has always had a piece of mysogyny about it, as has Germanic, for that matter. The Celtic culture hasn't, from what I have read and heard.

One feature of discourse among the learned, and not so learned, perhaps, might be, "Have all the Elves gone over sea?" Which would put a different bent on exploration, too... Would the native Americans have been treated differently... at least, at first? Purely speculative, of course...

[Encaitare]

One feature of discourse among the learned, and not so learned, perhaps, might be, "Have all the Elves gone over sea?" Which would put a different bent on exploration, too... Would the native Americans have been treated differently... at least, at first? Purely speculative, of course...

Supposedly the Aztecs thought that the Spanish explorers who arrived were gods, or messengers from the gods, because of their unusual (to them, at least) appearance. Perhaps if it was widely believed that in the West yet dwelt the Elves, it would have been the other way around. The explorers may have made a crusade of sorts, and believed that the natives they encountered were Elves. How disappointed they would have been to discover the truth ...

But they probably would have had great respect for the Native American at first, since they would have considered them to be wise, wonderful beings. However, when they failed to witness any great acts of elven "magic" and such, the explorers probably would have turned on them, deciding that they weren't going to revere people who seemed too much like regular people.

Yay! This is a speculative thread which is actually quite thought-provoking!

[Hookbill the Goomba]

Wow! this idea as been in my head since I first found Tolkien (Hiding under a rock.. silly man). I often wondered, perhaps people would try and sail a ship to Valinor, and go off to the undieing lands. Or, more likely, they would make a wide rage of Valanorian products for all to buy and sell.

But seriously, perhaps it would then be taught in schools! AS history! Now I want a time machine to go to this future world of Silmarillion worshipers... wait... (Looks around the Downs...) hum...

Moreover, the elvish language might be taught like Latin is now. People would go searching in the sea for Meathos’ Silmarill. It would be a mad middle earth place… cool!

I think one of the Moderators will move this to mirth if we are not careful...

[HerenIstarion]

Originally Posted by Hookbill the Goomba

It would be a mad middle earth place… cool!

And, as tought from childhood as 'reality of this world' seem to lot of people boring ordinary thing, who would turn to internet message boards and discuss works of T.B.B.Foolhardy, where they had no Valar, no elves at all, but some strange beings named Progressives and such, where there were no Trees to light the sky but bulbs of Gas. Cool!

Though screens may have come out to be round, after all.

If seriously, the question is quite a hard one.

As Tolkien puts it, the Silmarillion (corpus) is pre-Christian, it can not replace New Testament and Christianity, but the switch would have worked in case if only Old Testament were to be replaced. Than prophecy of Christ's birth would be ascribed to Finrod and Andreth

Sil would not replace other systems, and there would have been no impact on, say, Buddhism or Induism - those are too different to be easily replaced. If there were only Silmarillion among the Sacred Texts to go on, I think people who now belong to Eastern confessions would write them anew.

Islam may have been slightly different, as it was introduced in 6th century AD, and its moral system is synthesis of both Judaism and Christianity. But not significantly, I suppose, for Muhammad would take moral imperatives, not particular details out of it, and imperatives of Silmarillion comply with those of Judaic Law and Christianity. Instead of Abraam there would probably be Aragorn though, and term saracins, applied to Arabs (With the meaning of Sarah's Dogs - descendants of Abraam's children Sarah threw out) would become arwencins, probably (with an assumption that some other wife there were for Aragorn for those other children to be born in the first place)

Common names of Jews, Christians and Muslims would be different. Probably, Greek ones would keep their place, and I would still be George, but davem definitely would become Melben

That all with a proviso that even with changed texts to go on, all the history were to repeat itself in the same locations - starting in Palestine and going in circles around. If it were to start in North-West Europe, Numenoreans playing the role of Chosen People, than instead of Jerusalem, crusades would go other way round, probably to some town on western shore of France or Spain, the role of Muslims would play some other ethnic group (basques?). Not England – Crusade on spiritual fuel is not efficient, the town must have been wealthy too, and England’s wealth comes to be there only after some form of capitalistic society begins to evolve.

Well, I can go on endlessly, but let us turn to, as Duchess liked to tell Alice, morals of it:

There would be no difference for man as a man, and no improvement of society . It all comes down to ‘that’s how human beings are’. Differences of religious belief are almost always traceable down to power-trip of this or that leader back in history. There are shia’ and suna’ in Islam, because after Muhammad’s death two parties wanted their candidate to become a khalif. There are Eastern and Western Churches because Patriarch and Pope were both arrogant men.

Probably, the position of women would have been better. But again, maybe not. For disparity is not caused by beliefs, rather beliefs and codes come around to form a theoretical base for already existing disparity.

Merely silly theological questions would be different though – instead of ‘how many angels can dance on a pinhead’ there would be ‘how exactly pointy were elven ears’ or ‘how many fathoms long where balrog wings, if there were any’

And with that, let me, whatever my personal feelings, second the proposal of moving current thread to Mirth

cheers

[Lalwendë]

If there were no spiritual texts in the world apart from The Silmarillion? Personally, I don't like the thought of that. For one, I like the fact that there are many different spiritual paths to choose from, and I also think that belief is an intensely personal thing; for me, no faith has more validity than another, and I like to think I can respect another person's differing faith for that reason. I have not found any one path that is quite right for me, so I'm happy that I can choose from many, or even none. The thought of only having one path and no other scares me! Even if it is Tolkien's path!

Sorry, I know that's not humorous, and now I've dragged the whole thread down..........

[Encaitare]

If there were no spiritual texts in the world apart from The Silmarillion? Personally, I don't like the thought of that.

I don't like the idea of only one text, either, but remember all the texts had to be written at some point. Doubtless there would be people who would not believe in what the Sil said, and they would go about creating their own faiths. These faiths would probably branch off the Sil and then eventually go their own ways... think how Christianity, Judaism, and Islam all had similar roots but then diverged.