LOTR spin-off books?

[The Saucepan Man]

As I have said before, I am no expert in intellectual property law. But I am able to shed some further light on some of the questions raised here - with regard to UK law at least.

As far as literary works are concerned, copyright only protects the expression of an idea, not the idea itself. However, the borderline between the expression of an idea and the idea itself is very difficult to define. I believe that copyright does protect more than the story as written. For example, it is possible that ideas that are substantially elaborated could attract copyright protection. This might well mean that protection is extended to the concepts used by Tolkien in creating his tales.

It is also worth noting that copyright does not protect names or titles, so authors are free to use the names "Bilbo Baggins", "Legolas" etc in their own works. I suspect, however, that if such names were used in conjunction with characters identical (or substantially identical) to the characters they denote in Tolkien's works, this would constitute an infringement of copyright. Also, names and titles may be protected by trade mark law. I do not know whether the Tolkien Estate has trade marked the names used in his works, but I am pretty sure that they will have been trade marked in connection with the merchandising rights (which Tolkien sold off, together with the film rights).

The upshot of all this is that, if one were to publish for commercial gain a tale based on LotR or The Hobbit, one would have to tread very carefully indeed (in the UK and other countries, such as the USA, with strong intellectual property laws, at least). One would have to substantially alter the characters, locations and concepts in order to avoid being at the wrong end of a lawsuit brought by the Estate (which, as has been said, is very aggressive in enforcing its rights). Indeed, the closest one could get would probably be something akin to the Shannarah series by Terry Brookes.

As for the ICE role-playing guides and the more recent Middle-earth based role-playing game, I suspect that the rights to these were sold off by the Tolkien Estate along with the film and merchandising rights. In fact, they are probably included within the merchandising rights. This would account for the preponderance of Middle-earth based board games, card games and video games.

Finally, copyright in a literary work (under UK, and indeed EU, law) lasts for for the life of the author plus 70 years from the end of the year in which he/she died. Copyright in all of Tolkien's works will therefore not expire until 2043 (by which time I shall be in my 70s ).

Hope that helps.

[Mithalwen]

Most of the names seem to be trade marked by New Line /the Saul Zaentz co which bought the original film rights I believe.

[Hookbill the Goomba]

If I'm honest, I was actually thinking more of Silm than HoME. But I felt it may be an interesting comment. I have actually heard some that say Silm should be counted as THE History of Middle earth... I'm not sure about that.

Back on topic.

Child, I have also heard of such stories published in book form in Russia. I have never seen them, but I heard tell of them. They apparently tell the tale of Legolas and Gimli, and give rise to the belief that Gimli sailed to valinor. Of course this could all be a load of rubbish, but the possibility is there. If they do exist I would not be surprised if it was not long before the estate thrust the heavy fist of the law down their throat.

[Lalwendë]

If I saw a book of fanfics or RPGs and they looked good, I'd buy them, as I would if they published any of these strange 'sequels' (there is one to Pride & Prejudice which I'm often intrigued by). I'd buy them, but I suspect it would be simply to satisfy my curiosity, and I can find such good work in our own RPG and fanfic areas on the 'Downs. I have seen the vast numbers of Star Trek novels out there - but then this is a different matter as they are based on visual entertainment - and there really needs to be not much more embellishment to Tolkien apart from what is already freely available out there.

And it all has to be canonical of course.

Now I'm going to take the plunge and make myself look stupid. Can someone explain what slash exactly is? Because I'm scared I might have written some if it's what I think it is.

[Child of the 7th Age]

Hi, Lalwende.

Slash is any story based on a man/man or woman/woman pairing. AU is a wider category, encompassing all kinds of deviations from an original story or history. For example, Harry Turtledove has written many books that postulate major deviations in history such as the South winning the American Civil War.

~Child

[Lalwendë]

Slash is any story based on a man/man or woman/woman pairing.

Another fine example of my naivety! And I innocently thought it meant lots of violence and fighting! Oh dear...

[HerenIstarion]

I have had an experience once - Nick Perumov (widely read author in post Spviet space, where Russian is still the lingua-franca for former socialist states) pursued an occupation in writing books about 4th age, with a warlike hobbits, Ringwraith Rings still around and a lot of other nonsense. Basic difference, which I then failed to see but now am able to put my finger onwas in philosophical background, though - for Mr. Perumov, the Good and Evil are equal forces.

But I stray. The publication was possible at all due to loopholes in international copyright legislation, I suppose (I'm not sure I'm sure about the thing, maybe it was headed 'fanfic' after all) Thing is, I've read it out of curiosity and thirst for all things even vaguely reminiscent of Tolkien. But my dissapointment with that particular piece (or pieces, as since 1994 when I first read it, Mr. Perumov went on to write the whole series of sequels), does not automatically imply I would not enjoy work of some other author, provided that it is fitting, philologically erudite, well written and does not chew over similar plotlines. Hard task for much advertised (by publishing houses) Tolkien's 'successors', but not impossible, I reckon

That'd be book one of mentioned by C7A up there. Another one (Russia again) is "Dark Wind" by Niennah (pseudonym, I once knew the proper name, but forgot it). This latter book is a Silmarillion from a point of view of the 'Dark Side'. Much better read than Perumove, and much cleverer, but equally standing on different ground than good old Professor dug his entish fingers into - arrogant, I daresay.

Or, in the latter case, I've been dissapointed, but not because the book repelling in its style or language mastery, and the plotline is quite interesting - though not original - basically repeating the Sil, just the standpoint is shifted. It is repellent in its morals, this time round.

So, the moral of my own post here maybe stated as mentioned, and now following:

Hard task for much advertised (by publishing houses) Tolkien's 'successors', but not impossible

But another moral still states:

The original is by definition of more value than its copy,

And yet third moral may be drawn:

All the men do is [sub]creation - basing once work on things already there.