Do Balrogs Have Wings?

[obloquy]

I think in general people make demons out to be much more beastly than they are. The extent of a fallen angel's carnality is stooping to the level of Man. We're not talking about a wild animal who'll bark and growl and roar and drool. Tolkien was very severe with Bakshi's version of the Bridge because Tolkien's intention was for the Balrog to maintain a dignified and sinister silence. There's no need for eye spots, or horns, or spikes, or scary wings. Durin's Bane was intimidating enough to even Gandalf when he had not even seen him yet.

Think about what we're talking about, folks. These are ancient, mighty fallen spirits, not guard dogs.

[mark12_30]

Well, since I can't exactly decide (and on some days don't care) I'm going to have to log on as an even number of alt-egos and vote myself into neutrality.

Or I guess I can just sit back and watch.

Either way, I'm enjoying the details of the discussion. "Ancient mighty spirits"-- nicely put, obloquy; quite a ring to it.

And about the "if he had wings why not fly back out of the chasm"-- maybe he had enough wind knocked out of him, or was just dizzy enough that he couldn't recover. These assumed bodies are pesky things, and I suspect they have a way of operating unexpectedly under duress.

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by obloquy

Think about what we're talking about, folks. These are ancient, mighty fallen spirits, not guard dogs.

Okay, sorry to take this out on a not-so-necessary tangent, but guard dogs got me thinking.

What's the most fearsome guard dog in middle-earth? Carcharoth. Not exactly a Balrog, but not TOO far behind, and if we remember that he is a whelp of Draugluin, it would perhaps not be too improbable to say that he was at least part-Maia (aka supernatural) ancestry, above and beyond the power infused into him by Morgoth or by eating the Silmaril.

Which isn't to say that the Balrogs had guard dog status, by any means, but if you think about the way they do Morgoth's bidding unquestioningly, they certainly don't seem to be portrayed as particularly independent fellows.

Not that they aren't fearsome, and it really doesn't have much to say about their actual shape, but perhaps its worth noting that for all their terror, the Balrogs did the bidding, unquestioningly, of their master. Since they are said to be of the same general shape, it would seem wise therefore to assume that their looks were derived from a "Master" plan, to which they became bound thereafter (being of considerably lesser power than either Sauron or Morgoth, they would seem to have a much more limited potential for changing their shapes. And the more permanently attached to that shape, the less easy it would seem to be to change it. And the Balrogs would seem to have been pretty attached, in the end, to those shapes).

[Nimrodel_9]

How many times have we been through this? YES, balrogs had wings, but they were not used in flight. Perhaps some could fly, but I would say most couldn`t. That`s all I have to say.

Nimmy

[obloquy]

Good post, Formendacil.

It is true that Maiar could take the form of anything, not just humanoids, and frankly, I forgot about Huan when I posted above. He was originally conceived of by Tolkien as an incarnate Maia. If this is the case, he's an unusual example and I can't really explain it. It seems that Tolkien changed his mind about Huan's nature, however, in a note from Myths Transformed:

The same sort of thing may be said of Húan and the Eagles: they were taught language by the Valar, and raised to a higher level - but they still had no fëar.

I know my accepting stance on that note contradicts previous posts of mine, but I now see a reason for Tolkien to come to the conclusion he did.

[Fordim Hedgethistle]

Just thought I would pass along to you all that I raised this issue with Mrs. Hedgethistle and she said, "Of course they have wings, you can see them right there in the movie!"

So that, as they say, is that.

*Fordim makes mental note to ask Mrs. Hedgethistle about Elves' ears*

[obloquy]

Again, I'll shamelessly hijack the thread: Elf ears, Man ears, and Hobbit ears are all "slightly pointed". It's canonical. Hobbit ears are directly said to be such by comparison to Elf ears, and it is well established in Tolkien's writings that Man and Elf were physiologically identical, to the point that they could only be distinguished from one another by the relative intensity of their eyes.

[Lyta_Underhill]

This is a total whim, and I've never weighed in before on the Balrog and wing question. I regret being sadly out of date and not having the time to read a WHOLE lot of threads on the subject, but the simple thought occurred to me that a being who chooses a weapon of fiery whips would probably not do so if said being had wings. Wouldn't the whips recoil and constantly tear the wings? Thus, out of reverse logic, I choose No. Ask me again tomorrow and I'll forget I even said anything about it!

Cheers,
Lyta

[radagastly]

Like many others, I've never weighed in on the Balrog-wing controversy. I guess I just wanted to see them the way I see them, and not be argued with. (yes I know I ended that with a preposition--I was never a fan of Alexander Pope, or his Latin!).

I think they had wings but never flew. I'm also not saying they couldn't fly, just that they didn't. If it matters, I think that they couldn't fly, and the wings were reverse-vestigial. (In other words, I don't think they could fly, they just hoped to one day.)

Of course, that doesn't explain why the Moria Balrog would have gone all the way from Beleriand to the Misty Mountains on foot when he could have just have easily found refuge closer.

For what it's worth Fordim, I think you have an upcoming ultertior motive for these polls that you have yet to reveal. So, what's up?