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View Poll Results: Do balrogs have wings? | |||
Yes |
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114 | 58.16% |
No |
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82 | 41.84% |
Voters: 196. You may not vote on this poll |
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#11 | ||||||
Spirit of the Lonely Star
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 5,133
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Chasing after Balrogs in my head....
Late as usual! If I've duplicated anything I apologize, but here is more food for thought.
First, if Balrogs flew in the First Age, how do we explain the following quotations that were part of the Legendarium from its earliest date? The italics are mine. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
It seems that everything boils down to five particular passages: the reference in the appendix of LotR, the two mentions of wings in the books itself, the conversation between Gimli and Frodo that Mr. Underhill cited, and the one passage where the Balrogs are said to have come to Morgoth’s aid. Let me take these one at a time…not necessarily in the order listed. I think we have to look very closely at the language and style of writing that’s used and see how this compares with the language and style of other passages to determine if JRRT was speaking literally or figuratively. First, we’ve already discussed the Gimli sighting. With all respect to Mr. Underhill, I don’t think this proves the case. Gimli says the distant winged thing reminds him of “the shadow of the Balrog”. He says nothing about physical form or wings. The emphasis here is on the “unlight” or “shadow” that invariably cloaks all evil creatures. This is something that Tolkien frequently focuses on. Two evil creatures could have the same dark shadow surrounding them and strike the same feeling of dread, but have very different physical features. Second there is the appendix reference discussing what happened to the dwarves: Quote:
Next, there’s the time when the Balrogs come to aid Morgoth: Quote:
Finally, there are the words in LotR itself. These have already been quoted… The first passage (like two vast wings) is clearly a simile. But is the second (its wings were spread from wall to wall) a metaphor or a literal description? There are definitely times when Tolkien uses a simile first and then goes on to use a metaphor. The one instance I can remember is when the men from Far Harad are said to be “like half-trolls with white eyes and red tongues.” In the very next sentence, he calls them “troll-men”. But there is another argument here that I think is very convincing to show that the second phrase has to be a metaphor, and not a literal description. This is not my original idea: you can find the whole argument in the “Balrog” entry in the Encyclopedia of Arda. I will try to paraphrase it. First, we know from Tolkien’s text that the chasm is 50 feet wide, and that the hall was “cavernous”, “loftier and far longer than the one in which they had slept” Using this information, the Encyclopedia says this: Quote:
It should also be noted, and this is a further $.02 from me, that the members of the Fellowship were also told to “slam” the door and they “wedged it with broken sword-blades and splinters of wood.” For them to be able to do this, implies a door that isn’t huge. . There was simply no way that a Balrog with a 100-foot wingspan could have squeezed into the Chamber even if the door was 10-12 feet wide. The meaning of the quote has to be figurative rather than literal. The Balrogs apparently could control the shadow about them enough to give the illusion of wings, but that's a far cry from real wings, vestigal or full size. I don’t know… Tolkien changed his mind about so many things about Balrogs. He decreased their numbers and added the shadows. Maybe he also had it in his mind to add real wings, but he never did the revisions of the Legendarium, and never unequivocally said that Balrogs had wings or could fly…. I vote no! Now, I must definitely have a look at Fordim's "ulterior motive".
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Multitasking women are never too busy to vote. Last edited by Child of the 7th Age; 01-10-2005 at 02:35 PM. |
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