Do Balrogs Have Wings? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

obloquy · 01-10-2005, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Why was this quote largely ignored?

I think that quote was a joke.

mark12_30 · 01-10-2005, 02:32 PM

If HoME XXVIII has been published, I want to know how we all missed the publication of 14-27.

the phantom · 01-10-2005, 02:44 PM

They weren't published. I raided CT's house and took them. They go up to XXXI. They're great. XVII includes a drawing of elvish ears. They are not pointy. They're round, and sort of resemble oranges. It doesn't look like they can be used to fly. There's also a balrog drawing. It doesn't have wings, but a note at the bottom adds that balrog wings would be pointed if they had them.

mark12_30 · 01-10-2005, 02:57 PM

"Angel of music", indeed! That's quite an opera, and well sung!

***Mister Underhill*** · 01-10-2005, 03:55 PM

Quote:

There is also this quotation that suggests Melkor’s own inability to fly. If the Balrogs knew how to fly, why would Melkor not go and get the secret from his own allies, rather than trying to capture eagles to force the information from them?

On the other hand, there are citations aplenty regarding winged servants of Morgoth, the most obvious of which is Thuringwethil, "the messenger of Sauron, [who] was wont to fly in vampire's form to Angband..." See also the words of Carcharoth in the Lays: "Though winged creatures to and fro unnumbered pass here, all I know."

The speculation on the dimensions of the hall in the Encyclopedia of Arda is just that -- pure speculation. We can't draw any reliable inference of the dimensions of the hall side of the bridge based on the width of the chasm; there's no correlation between the two.

As far as the Chamber of Mazarbul -- there's no reason to think that wings would make a stitch of difference as to whether or not a winged or unwinged Balrog would be able to pass through the door. Why wouldn't a Balrog, like any winged creature, be able to fold its wings into its body? By the same logic, no garden-variety songbird should be able to fit through the round hole of a bird-house.

You can read all the "wings", "winged", "flying", etc. figuratively, but there sure seem to be a lot of wing references cropping up in relation to Balrogs. The debate surges on!

Bêthberry · 01-10-2005, 04:15 PM

Quote:

posted by Mr. Underhill

You can read all the "wings", "winged", "flying", etc. figuratively, but there sure seem to be a lot of wing references cropping up in relation to Balrogs. The debate surges on!

Clearly, some of us are winging it while others are not.

mark12_30 · 01-10-2005, 04:38 PM

Child, you are eloquent, and thorough, and persuasive.

But if Balrogs were so groundbound, then why didn't Frodo (and the rest of the fellowship) just look at Gimli and say, "In the air?"

They had just as much reason to guess "Black Rider" as they did to guess "balrog". The reason they didn't guess "Nazgul" first is that they had no reason to suspect a Nazgul could fly; they'd always been on the ground before.

All the falling-from-mountainside arguments don't convince me. There are large birds that can fly, but need room, headwind and some luck to get off of the ground. (Canadian geese; swans.)

EDIT

You know, thirty years later, and here I am. Balrogs? I feel like a lounge-lizard. I can't believe I got sucked into this.

Wings, I tell you. Wings.

View Poll Results: Do balrogs have wings?
Yes	114	58.16%
No	82	41.84%
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01-10-2005, 02:32 PM	#2
mark12_30 Stormdancer of Doom Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Elvish singing is not a thing to miss, in June under the stars Posts: 4,349	If HoME XXVIII has been published, I want to know how we all missed the publication of 14-27. __________________ ...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve.

01-10-2005, 02:44 PM	#3
the phantom Beloved Shadow Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: The Stadium Posts: 5,971	They weren't published. I raided CT's house and took them. They go up to XXXI. They're great. XVII includes a drawing of elvish ears. They are not pointy. They're round, and sort of resemble oranges. It doesn't look like they can be used to fly. There's also a balrog drawing. It doesn't have wings, but a note at the bottom adds that balrog wings would be pointed if they had them. __________________ the phantom has posted. This thread is now important.

01-10-2005, 02:57 PM	#4
mark12_30 Stormdancer of Doom Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Elvish singing is not a thing to miss, in June under the stars Posts: 4,349	"Angel of music", indeed! That's quite an opera, and well sung! __________________ ...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve.

01-10-2005, 04:38 PM	#7
mark12_30 Stormdancer of Doom Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Elvish singing is not a thing to miss, in June under the stars Posts: 4,349	Child, you are eloquent, and thorough, and persuasive. But if Balrogs were so groundbound, then why didn't Frodo (and the rest of the fellowship) just look at Gimli and say, "In the air?" They had just as much reason to guess "Black Rider" as they did to guess "balrog". The reason they didn't guess "Nazgul" first is that they had no reason to suspect a Nazgul could fly; they'd always been on the ground before. All the falling-from-mountainside arguments don't convince me. There are large birds that can fly, but need room, headwind and some luck to get off of the ground. (Canadian geese; swans.) EDIT You know, thirty years later, and here I am. Balrogs? I feel like a lounge-lizard. I can't believe I got sucked into this. Wings, I tell you. Wings. __________________ ...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve.