Let's Talk Morgoth

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by alatar

Orcs are basically smart animals - as we have not yet produced a valid argument that would allow for them to have free will - and so there is no need for revelation.

I would have thought that the behaviour exhibited by the likes of Shagrat, Gorbag, Ugluk, Azog and the Great Goblin, not to mention the existence of "quasi-independent" Orcish colonies and the development of an Orcish culture of sorts (songs, distinctive weaponry etc), provide a valid basis for arguing that they (or some of them at least) were higher than animals and had a degree of free will, whether or not one actually accepts that argument.