Tol-in-Gaurhoth III (The Saga Continues...) - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

the phantom · 06-07-2005, 10:28 PM

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I personally think that even if he is not a werewolf, the very fact he is nudging us in that direction is a perfect reason not to hang the phantom this DAY. As he says, he’s not been right yet. At the very least we should do something that he does not want us to do.

Heh- can't argue with that.

Fordim said-

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Put bluntly, TP is either a wolf or an innocent who is helping the wolves by distracting our attention with his own suspicious behaviour, and slinging enough mud around to fill a horse paddock.

And Kuru answered-

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I also fail to see why you can suspect the phantom over The Saucepan Man in this area. As a matter of fact, I think that if you are really honestly of that opinion you’d hang The Saucepan Man far sooner than the phantom.

I agree with that.

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A Saucepan Man who has specifically instigated the hanging of two innocents over a phantom who did not take a leading role in either...I’m skeptical of your reasoning (to put it mildly).

Good point again, Kuru. As I also pointed out, Fordim's preference of me over Saucy makes little sense.

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To me the evidence reads that there is a much stronger possibility that The Saucepan Man is a werewolf than the phantom. This does not mean that I believe the phantom is not a werewolf. It does mean that I think we should hang the Saucepan Man first and then see what happens before we start acting on different speculation.

I completely agree.

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Can anyone think of a reason why it would be better for us to lynch him? Ignoring all the suspicions flying around is there any reason why one of them (phantom or spm) is a better choice than the other?

Did you skip Kuru's post?

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As I suspected, people are not reading my post. Why do I even bother...

I read it.

It was very good.

I was already going to cast my vote for Saucy, but now I am a bit more confident in my vote.

+ + The Saucepan Man

Kuruharan · 06-07-2005, 10:35 PM

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That's a bit pouty of an attitude.

Yeah, you are probably right. I probably shouldn't have said that.

I was just giving vent to a little frustration because I'm going to have to be up much later than I'd intended tonight hunting down books for my professor on WORLDCAT because that post took a lot longer to make than I'd hoped.

Sorry Shelob.

the phantom · 06-07-2005, 10:47 PM

Oh, and Shelob, why aren't you willing to vote for Saucy before me? You voted for him yesterday- you might as well do it again and see if you were right.

Or did a werewolf bite change your mind?

Kuruharan · 06-07-2005, 10:57 PM

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Or did a werewolf bite change your mind?

I'd been wondering that myself.

Shelob · 06-07-2005, 11:16 PM

"because I'm going to have to be up much later than I'd intended tonight" ~Kuru

I know how you feel...I'm not done with homework yet and when I finished my last post I told myself "That's it, no more Barrow-Downs until tomorrow" and look where I am...right back here...

"To ensure that Shelob cannot accuse me (again) of not having the courage of my convictions…" ~Kuru

I hope you don't mind but given that you also say 'Sorry Shelob.

' I'm reading this somewhat in the way of a jest...I hadn't actually ment to accuse you anything I was just wondering why since you seemed so sure you wouldn't just vote...Only to turn around and realize that I felt much the same way...

"Oh, and Shelob, why aren't you willing to vote for Saucy before me? You voted for him yesterday- you might as well do it again and see if you were right." ~Phantom

I was willing...I am willing...I will be willing...sorry, tenses have just about lost all meaning--and since it's now after 1 in the morning where I am I think you can forgive me for not fetting about it here, I'm saving fretting for the paper that's due tomorrow and still isn't finished...

What happened was I wondered why Kuru would suggest Saucepan Man when (as I was remembering) general suspicion seemed to be on you. I then had to go eat, when I came back I counted (as I described ye-many posts before) and realized that it was really really close and that SpM was by a hinted accusation actually ahead of you. After your outburst My mind was flitting through possibilities and landed upon the possibility I described in my bullet-point post.

Since that point I've been unable to work my mind around to seeing the advantages of killing Saucepan Man. I know that they're there...it's just my mind got itself caught between cleaning and homework to the point where the path it had already laid out here was clear and everything else gets detoured into my big end of the year project (mumblewhinecomplain)...that's why I asked "Can anyone think of a reason why it would be better for us to lynch him [SpM]?" I honestly can't given my state of mind right now.

As to this

"Or did a werewolf bite change your mind?

"

Given my state of mind and My already proven inability to figure out what's said in jest and what isn't I'm going with the fact that Kuru seems to have taken this seriously to respond that what I've said above is true, whether or not you believe it is up to you...and if we're talking about bites I would like to point out that a veritable army of mosquitos have taken up residence in my room, I've got so many bites I probably wouldn't relize if a werewolf slipped one in...if, however, I turn into a mosquito tonight you'll know that were-wolves aren't the least of our problems, we'll have to deal with were-mosquitos too...

the phantom · 06-07-2005, 11:30 PM

Well, I'm off to bed so I won't be around to argue any more until shortly before the deadline.

As my last contribution to those of you who can't make up your minds, I'll provide links to all of my wonderful posts defending myself.

I am innocent. I'm super innocent. No wait, I'm extremely innocent. Or should I say entirely innocent. Or perhaps innocent as pure wind-driven snow. And don't forget I'm child-like innocent.

Read them and see if you can really support the case against me as much as you can support the case against Saucy.

Kuruharan · 06-07-2005, 11:35 PM

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Or perhaps innocent as pure wind-driven snow.

I've started a fad.

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I've got so many bites I probably wouldn't relize if a werewolf slipped one in...if, however, I turn into a mosquito tonight you'll know that were-wolves aren't the least of our problems, we'll have to deal with were-mosquitos too...

Is this a "yes?" This almost reads to me like a "yes."

If it is "yes" then the translation of that post is that The Saucepan Man is not online right now or Shelob hasn't yet been able to clear her turning on him with him yet.

(Let's see if that doesn't bring him out of the woodwork.)

mormegil · 06-08-2005, 01:05 AM

Well it is now time for me to vote and I am going to take Kuru's advice of getting some capital for myself. But not in the way Kuru wants. I have reread your arguement against SpM and I think that it is very good but I was able to see things in it that didn't add all they way up (such as taking things out of context and manipulating what he said). I know this may come across that I am defending him but I am not. I just simply cannot feel right about voting for him while the phantom is still out there killing innocents.

According to my calculations we have a better chance of getting phantom lynched today than we do SpM. I have stated that I think the phantom is guilty since early on and wouldn't be faithful if I didn't use this opportunity. I have a couple others I'm looking at next round, of which SpM is one and rather high on my list. I wanted to wait till later but I won't have time after right now to vote so I must vote for:

++THE PHANTOM

And hope that a sufficient amount of people follow Azaelia and myself on this. If he, beyond my thought, is found innocent then I fully expect to be a prime suspect but I am willing to take that risk.

Holbytlass · 06-08-2005, 05:09 AM

I am willing to give Phantom the benefit of the doubt based on what has been put forward. And given the strikes against SaucepanMan. And given the idea that Kuru and I had (of 2 main suspects). I vote ++Saucepan Man .

Fordim Hedgethistle · 06-08-2005, 05:48 AM

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(Although on the other hand, Fordim does seem to spend an awful lot of time justifying hanging people he thinks might be innocent.

Well I'm sorry Kuru if it seems that way to you, but I guess I just lack your utter certainty about, and total faith in the validity of my conclusions. I don't think I can make it much clearer that I'm as certain of The Phantom's guilt as I can be under the circumstances. But only the wolves can know for certain whether I am right or wrong. Your own total certainty reveals you to be either a wolf or an incautious innocent (one would think that after you voted to lynch Evisse you would have realised that perhaps a conclusion might be wrong...I am just willing to acknowledge that I might be wrong before I cast my vote, rather than stand around afterward, red in the face with embarassment, mumbling about how sure I was that I was correct.)

At any event:

++ THE PHANTOM

mormegil · 06-07-2005, 11:41 PM

My head is currently spinning and I don't know which way to go. Do I vote for SpM or the phantom?
Kuruharan has made some good points about SpM but I've felt his guilt and found some evidence against the phantom.

SpM seems more willing to die and agrees with my general philosophy that this a team game and innocents should be willing to die if it will help the cause.

Kuru and The Phantom seem to be doing a lot of agreeing. Is the phantom seeing an innocent to side with?

Kuru accused SpM of flying under the radar and then being vocal after he was accused. I noticed the same thing with Kuru the first day so I'm not sure that arouses my suspicion.

But many good points were made by Kuru and set forth well.

What to do?

Edit: All I know for certain is that we had better bag a werewolf today or we are just about all dead.

Kuruharan · 06-07-2005, 11:53 PM

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What to do?

Trust me. Forget the phantom. You can always hang him later. This issue is really down to a question of Saucepan or me. Just pick who you think is more trustworthy.

EDIT: Of course, you want to pick the Saucepan Man if you really want to bag a werewolf, since I'm not one.

Shelob · 06-07-2005, 11:55 PM

"Is this a "yes?" This almost reads to me like a "yes."" ~Kuru

My response to that is that I'm apparently not the only one who can miss giant 'This is a Joke' signs...though if your mind is in the same state as mine I can't say I blame you...

alright...if I come back on tonight yell at me...Remind me that my grade depends on the paper and not on werewolf...

Upon the morrow my friends, upon the morrow.

06-07-2005, 10:47 PM	#3
the phantom Beloved Shadow Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: The Stadium Posts: 5,971	Oh, and Shelob, why aren't you willing to vote for Saucy before me? You voted for him yesterday- you might as well do it again and see if you were right. Or did a werewolf bite change your mind? __________________ the phantom has posted. This thread is now important.

06-07-2005, 11:16 PM	#5
Shelob Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: At the abysmal Abyss Mall. Posts: 276	"because I'm going to have to be up much later than I'd intended tonight" ~Kuru I know how you feel...I'm not done with homework yet and when I finished my last post I told myself "That's it, no more Barrow-Downs until tomorrow" and look where I am...right back here... "To ensure that Shelob cannot accuse me (again) of not having the courage of my convictions…" ~Kuru I hope you don't mind but given that you also say 'Sorry Shelob. ' I'm reading this somewhat in the way of a jest...I hadn't actually ment to accuse you anything I was just wondering why since you seemed so sure you wouldn't just vote...Only to turn around and realize that I felt much the same way... "Oh, and Shelob, why aren't you willing to vote for Saucy before me? You voted for him yesterday- you might as well do it again and see if you were right." ~Phantom I was willing...I am willing...I will be willing...sorry, tenses have just about lost all meaning--and since it's now after 1 in the morning where I am I think you can forgive me for not fetting about it here, I'm saving fretting for the paper that's due tomorrow and still isn't finished... What happened was I wondered why Kuru would suggest Saucepan Man when (as I was remembering) general suspicion seemed to be on you. I then had to go eat, when I came back I counted (as I described ye-many posts before) and realized that it was really really close and that SpM was by a hinted accusation actually ahead of you. After your outburst My mind was flitting through possibilities and landed upon the possibility I described in my bullet-point post. Since that point I've been unable to work my mind around to seeing the advantages of killing Saucepan Man. I know that they're there...it's just my mind got itself caught between cleaning and homework to the point where the path it had already laid out here was clear and everything else gets detoured into my big end of the year project (mumblewhinecomplain)...that's why I asked "Can anyone think of a reason why it would be better for us to lynch him [SpM]?" I honestly can't given my state of mind right now. As to this "Or did a werewolf bite change your mind? " Given my state of mind and My already proven inability to figure out what's said in jest and what isn't I'm going with the fact that Kuru seems to have taken this seriously to respond that what I've said above is true, whether or not you believe it is up to you...and if we're talking about bites I would like to point out that a veritable army of mosquitos have taken up residence in my room, I've got so many bites I probably wouldn't relize if a werewolf slipped one in...if, however, I turn into a mosquito tonight you'll know that were-wolves aren't the least of our problems, we'll have to deal with were-mosquitos too... __________________ A signature always reveals a man's character - and sometimes even his name ~Evan Esar. Pan for Everyone!

06-07-2005, 11:30 PM	#6
the phantom Beloved Shadow Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: The Stadium Posts: 5,971	Well, I'm off to bed so I won't be around to argue any more until shortly before the deadline. As my last contribution to those of you who can't make up your minds, I'll provide links to all of my wonderful posts defending myself. I am innocent. I'm super innocent. No wait, I'm extremely innocent. Or should I say entirely innocent. Or perhaps innocent as pure wind-driven snow. And don't forget I'm child-like innocent. Read them and see if you can really support the case against me as much as you can support the case against Saucy. __________________ the phantom has posted. This thread is now important.

06-08-2005, 01:05 AM	#8
mormegil Maundering Mage Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 4,651	Well it is now time for me to vote and I am going to take Kuru's advice of getting some capital for myself. But not in the way Kuru wants. I have reread your arguement against SpM and I think that it is very good but I was able to see things in it that didn't add all they way up (such as taking things out of context and manipulating what he said). I know this may come across that I am defending him but I am not. I just simply cannot feel right about voting for him while the phantom is still out there killing innocents. According to my calculations we have a better chance of getting phantom lynched today than we do SpM. I have stated that I think the phantom is guilty since early on and wouldn't be faithful if I didn't use this opportunity. I have a couple others I'm looking at next round, of which SpM is one and rather high on my list. I wanted to wait till later but I won't have time after right now to vote so I must vote for: ++THE PHANTOM And hope that a sufficient amount of people follow Azaelia and myself on this. If he, beyond my thought, is found innocent then I fully expect to be a prime suspect but I am willing to take that risk. __________________ “I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo. "So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.”

06-08-2005, 05:09 AM	#9
Holbytlass Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2003 Location: The Party Tree Posts: 1,042	I am willing to give Phantom the benefit of the doubt based on what has been put forward. And given the strikes against SaucepanMan. And given the idea that Kuru and I had (of 2 main suspects). I vote ++Saucepan Man . __________________ Holby is an actual flesh-and-blood person, right? Not, say a sock-puppet of Nilp’s, by any chance? ~Nerwen, WWCIII

06-07-2005, 11:41 PM	#11
mormegil Maundering Mage Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 4,651	My head is currently spinning and I don't know which way to go. Do I vote for SpM or the phantom? Kuruharan has made some good points about SpM but I've felt his guilt and found some evidence against the phantom. SpM seems more willing to die and agrees with my general philosophy that this a team game and innocents should be willing to die if it will help the cause. Kuru and The Phantom seem to be doing a lot of agreeing. Is the phantom seeing an innocent to side with? Kuru accused SpM of flying under the radar and then being vocal after he was accused. I noticed the same thing with Kuru the first day so I'm not sure that arouses my suspicion. But many good points were made by Kuru and set forth well. What to do? Edit: All I know for certain is that we had better bag a werewolf today or we are just about all dead. __________________ “I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo. "So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.” Last edited by mormegil; 06-07-2005 at 11:48 PM.

06-07-2005, 11:55 PM	#13
Shelob Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: At the abysmal Abyss Mall. Posts: 276	Your professor may not be happy with you Kuru, but my mom's my teacher... "Is this a "yes?" This almost reads to me like a "yes."" ~Kuru My response to that is that I'm apparently not the only one who can miss giant 'This is a Joke' signs...though if your mind is in the same state as mine I can't say I blame you... alright...if I come back on tonight yell at me...Remind me that my grade depends on the paper and not on werewolf... Upon the morrow my friends, upon the morrow. __________________ A signature always reveals a man's character - and sometimes even his name ~Evan Esar. Pan for Everyone!