Greatest hobbit deeds/actions

[Boromir88]

Thankyou for the kindness Captain...can I beam you up now?

Anway, I found this which goes along which fits in with the Frodo ordeal. Tolkien said that Frodo failed as a hero, but morally he did not fail. What Frodo did was set an impossible goal for himself, and when you set impossible goals you fail. But, what Frodo did do was amazing in itself...getting the Ring to Mount Doom, while being starved, bearing a great weight/pain, and the influence of the Ring, where the ultimate goal in the end was acheived.

"Frodo indeed ‘failed’ as a hero, as conceived by simple minds: he did not endure to the end; he gave in, ratted. I do not say ‘simple minds’ with contempt: they often see with clarity the simple truth and the absolute ideal to which effort must be directed, even if it is unattainable. Their weakness, however, is twofold. They do not perceive the complexity of any given situation in Time, in which an absolute ideal is enmeshed. They tend to forget that strange element in the World that we call Pity or Mercy, which is also an absolute requirement in moral judgement (since it is Present in the Divine nature). In its highest exercise it belongs to God. For finite judges of imperfect knowledge it must lead to the use of two different scales of ‘morality’. To ourselves we must present the absolute ideal without compromise, for we do not know our own limits of natural strength (+grace), and if we do not aim at the highest we shall certainly fall short of the utmost that we could achieve. To others, in any case of which we know enough to make a judgement, we must apply a scale tempered by ‘mercy’: that is, since we can with good will do this without the bias inevitable in judgements of ourselves, we must estimate the limits of another's strength and weigh this against the force of particular circumstances.*

I do not think that Frodo’s was a moral failure. At the last moment the pressure of the Ring would reach its maximum - impossible, I should have said, for any one to resist, certainly after long possession, months of increasing torment, and when starved and exhausted. Frodo had done what he could and spent himself completely (as an instrument of Providence) and had produced a situation in which the object of his quest could be achieved. His humility (with which he began) and his sufferings were justly rewarded by the highest honour; and his exercise of patience and mercy towards Gollum gained him Mercy: his failure was redressed.

We are finite creatures with absolute limitations upon the powers of our soul-body structure in either action or endurance. Moral failure can only be asserted, I think, when a man's effort or endurance falls short of his limits, and the blame decreases as that limit is closer approached.~Letter 246

So, taking this Letter by Tolkien into consideration, I'm content with it being number 3

[The Saucepan Man]

I would go further, Boro.

It seems to me that Frodo's amazing act of courage, selflesness and endurance was the single most important act ever achieved by a Hobbit in Middle-earth. He may not have been able to destroy the Ring when it came to it but (discounting Tom Bombadil) no one else could have done it either. The very fact that got the Ring to Mount Zoom - er - sorry - Doom was an incredible achievement in itself. The burden and effort involved in carrying it there was probably more than enough to overcome most. And it was through the kindness and pity that he had shown towards Gollum that the Ring was ultimately able to be destroyed.

He may have failed to willingly destroy the Ring. But I would rather put a positive "spin" on it and say that he succeeded in his Quest.

The achievements of Sam and Merry should not be underestimated, I agree. But they are surely superseded by Frodo's achievement. While Sam certainly contributed, it was Frodo who was able, through his endeavours, to bring about the circumstances whereby the Ring could be destroyed. And, in doing so, he saved the entirety of Middle-earth from falling under Sauron's thrall.

[Tuor of Gondolin]

Okay, a change. A tie for second is now declared.
But still to be answered is, can a failure (however noble)
be declared an achievement? Perhaps.
(And if the Bullroarer hadn't inadvertendly invented
golf he'd probably be up at # 5).
And how come Fatty Bolger gets no respect- you know what I mean!

1-Sam Gives the Ring back to Frodo
2-Merry helps slay the Witchking of Angmar
2-Frodo's failed effort to destroy the Ring
4-Bilbo leaves the Ring for Frodo
5-Bilbo goes down the tunnel to first Smaug confrontation
6-Gollum's epic efforts to regain the Ring
7-Frodo defies the nazgul at the Ford of Bruinen
8-The Bullroarer kills an orc while he's defending The Shire
9-Deagol finds the Ring in the Anduin
10-Pippin kills a troll outside the Iron Gates
11-Bilbo saves the dwarves from the giant spiders
12-Rosie has numerous children and emotionally supports Samwise
13-Bilbo gives the Arkenstone to the elves and men of Dale
14-Bilbo returns to Erebor after giving up the Arkenstone
15. Rumor has it hobbit archers helped out against Angmar
16-Lobelia confronts Sharkey's gang with her umbrella
17-Frodo finally (with "assistance" from Boromir) decides to go to Mordor
18-Bilbo gets the dwarves out of Thranduil's Realm
19-Fatty Bolger stays behind to cover Frodo's trail

[The Saucepan Man]

When you say "greatest", though, what exactly do you mean? The ones that took the most skill? The most courage? The most effort? The most determination? A combination of those things? Or the ones that contributed most to the "cause" of Middle-earth (loosely, I suppose, Eru's plan)?

If the latter, Gollum and Deagol's "achievements" would surely rate the lowest. And we should include Smeagol's part in the destruction of the Ring since, though not intentionally done, it nevertheless contributed to the "cause".

Taking a combination of those things, but bearing in mind the morality of the tale, I would rate them as follows (with some new ones added):

1-Frodo brings about the destruction of the Ring - See comments above.
2-Merry helps slay the Witchking of Angmar - Immense courage, overcame great fear and an important contribution.
3-Sam Gives the Ring back to Frodo - It was not in Sam's nature to keep it, but it must nevertheless have taken an immense effort, being as he was in Mordor at the time.
4-Bilbo goes down the tunnel to first Smaug confrontation - Rated higher than giving up the Ring as he did not know the nature of the Ring and was "assisted" by Gandalf, whereas knowingly facing a Dragon must have taken a lot of courage.
5-Frodo defies the Nazgul at the Ford of Bruinen - No mean achievement given the shape that he was in.
6-Frodo decides to go to Mordor alone - Would you have wanted to do that? Bormoir or no Boromir it was a selfless and courageous decision. Even moreso, in fact, given that he had witnessed first hand the Ring's effect on Boromir.
7-Bilbo leaves the Ring for Frodo - See under 4. above.
8-Bilbo saves the dwarves from the giant spiders - They were spiders, for goodness sake. And he was hardly a seasoned campaigner at this point.
9-Samwise rescues Frodo from Cirith Ungol - Worthy of mention, and a high rating, I think.
10-Frodo agrees to take the Ring to Mordor - I don't think he fully realised what he was getting himself into. But he knew something of the nature of the Ring, and he agreed to do so before he knew that the other eight members of the Fellowship would be accompanying him.
11-Pippin kills a troll outside the Iron Gates - Killing a Troll is no mean feat for a young Hobbit. And he saved Gimli's life and nearly died in the effort.
12-Bilbo gives the Arkenstone to the elves and men of Dale - He betrayed his companions. A difficult choice, but a wise one, and the right one.
13-Merry, Pippin and Sam organise the resistance to Sharkey's men - They saved the Shire, and all on their own (leadership-wise) this time.
14-Lobelia confronts Sharkey's gang with her umbrella - Quite a feat for an old lady armed only with an umbrella.
15-The Bullroarer oversees the rout a Goblin raiding party and beheads their Chieftain - He ends up lower than I expected. But he had an army on his side, and Goblins just don't compare with Nazgul, Trolls, Dragons and Giant Spiders. And let's just forget the golf thing.
16-The Hobbit Archers join the struggle against Angmar - A collective effort, rather than an individual performance, so not quite on a par with some of the others. But brave, nonetheless.
17-Bilbo gets the dwarves out of Thranduil's Realm - Not an inherently dangerous task, but one which showed resourcefulness and involved a great deal of discomfort.
18-Fatty Bolger stays behind to cover Frodo's trail - As has been said, he didn't realise the implications of what he had agreed to do. It would have been braver to go with the others. But raising the alarm was a smart move.
19-Bilbo enters a riddle contest with Gollum in the darkness of the Misty Mountains - I would rate it higher, but he did cheat.
20-Pippin looks into the Palantir - He was a fool of a Took to do it, but it had important consequences.
21-Gollum falls into the Crack of Doom with the Ring - Not intentionally done, but it saved Middle-earth.
22-Bilbo returns to Erebor after giving up the Arkenstone - The deed was already done. The courage was in taking the Arkenstone. Once he did that, he had to face the consequences.
23-Rosie has numerous children and emotionally supports Samwise - Impressive. But hardly extraordinary. Sorry.
24-Gollum's epic efforts to regain the Ring - OK, so it showed great determination and resourcefulness. But it was selfishly motivated, and I cannot really credit that.
25-Deagol finds the Ring in the Anduin - An act that had far-reaching consequences. But it hardly involved much input on Deagol's part. The Ring wanted to be found, anyway.

I am sure that there are more that could be added - there must be other Hobbit deeds greater than Deagol finding the Ring. I would have added Frodo's pity for Gollum, but I count that as part of 1.

Reviewing the list, it seems that I tend to favour courageous acts on the part of Hobbits. But I think the consequnces of the acts and the effort involved are important to consider too.

PS - Thought of another one. Sam confronting and defeating Shelob. I would put it at number 6 or 7 on the list above. She was the spawn of Ungoliant, for goodness sake.

[Tuor of Gondolin]

Well done by SpM. #13, 19, and 20 are interesting additions,
especially # 13. Anyone have any others?
There seem to be two main considerations to such a topic and
list: the events/actions themselves, and what are the natures of qualifying
events.

When you say "greatest", though, what exactly do you mean? The ones that took the most skill? The most courage? The most effort? The most determination? A combination of those things? Or the ones that contributed most to the "cause" of Middle-earth (loosely, I suppose, Eru's plan)?

I was originally probably thinking of a definition including having a
"positive" "successful" outcome, although even that definition is
tricky. A "successful" outcome for Gollum, or even Deagol, would have
been a retention of the ring. And as to another hobbit "great"
achievement, what about the matriarch of Smeagol's clan expelling
him from the group? Other actions by her via-via Smeagol
would (albeit probably inadvertently) have changed the tale of the ring
if not the eventual outcome.

The broader definition of "greatest" is probably the better one,
although you have to be careful of making a definition too broad to be useful.

[Eönwë]

Hmm... this looks like an interesting thread.

But I would definately put Sam's fighting Shelob on that list.

[Galadriel55]

Interesting thread!

I think that the Conspiracy should be given some more praise. Pippin and Merry especially - even after the conspiracy business, in Rivendell, knowing what they are facing, they refuse to leave Frodo.

Another great accomplishment, that may be considered a semi-failure, but is great nonetheles, is the awakening of Smeagol in Gollum. Frodo brings out the last good in him when all others fail. It was not his fault that in the end Gollum himself decided to turn to his old ways.

I think Rosie is a great person because she waited a long time for Sam and never lost hope.

Pippin looking into the Palantir deserves to be higher on the list. He resisted Sauron - SAURON - with all his might, for as long as he could.

I think Farmer Cotton should also be on the list, for calmly and bravely facing the Ruffians and Shirrifs during the rebellion, and for quietly but firmly breaking the Rules before the rebellion.

What about Maggot and the Gaffer? They were both questioned by a Nazgul, and unlike Harry in Bree they were quite courageous.

Originally Posted by Sauce

Reviewing the list, it seems that I tend to favour courageous acts on the part of Hobbits.

Hm. I seem to favour the subtle ones more, courageous or not.

PS: I think Sam deserves to be reeeeally high on the list for all those times when he was torn apart, and chose to stick with Frodo. And for just always being there for him. He almost drowned for Frodo!