Watch this Clip NOW - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

davem · 04-16-2007, 12:32 PM

This is my attempt at a transcript - anyone do better?

Quote:

Everybody including divine spirits under God in this mythology makes mistakes. Of coudse the Gods made a primary error instead of leaving the Elves & Men to find out their way under the guidance of God they invited the Elves, because the rebel among them, the wicked god, Melkor was alive, had devastated a large part of the world, they took them back into their paradise in the West to protect them & so that the whole machinery starts from the, er, the rebellion of the Elves & therefore the rebellion of the evil they did in their bursting out from Paradise & therefore what you've got in our period is two lots of Elves, one that never started, just didn't bother to be anything higher than they were; they're the ordinary woodland Elves of the far east, those who started to go to the Divine Paradise & never got there, which are the Grey Elves of the West & those who got & came back as Exiles. The High Elves, who sing this song to Elbereth in the beginning of Lord of the Rings are Exiles who'd once known what it was to see the demiurgic gods in person.

Now Dwarves create a difficulty don't they, in this particular thing? They have certain grievances against Men & against Elves. They're incarnate in bodies rather like ourselves; we don't know much about them. They apparently are mortal though they are longeval. Where do they come into the scheme? Well, of course gave a great deal of thought, er to, to find their origin. I don't think I'll say anything about it at the moment, but they have a rational origin related to that theme, but they're not, er, a part of the Children of God. that's all I can really say about this. Men? Men are just Men.

Lalaith · 04-16-2007, 12:54 PM

This clip is fantastic, thank you Davem.

The stuff he is saying is fascinating, but so is the body language.
He really doesn't like talking about elves. His eyes are darting about all over the place, and he keeps covering his mouth with his hands.
Then he talks about dwarves, he's much happier, he looks straight into the camera.
Where's Kuru? He'd be delighted....

Legate of Amon Lanc · 04-16-2007, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lalaith

The stuff he is saying is fascinating, but so is the body language.
He really doesn't like talking about elves. His eyes are darting about all over the place, and he keeps covering his mouth with his hands.
Then he talks about dwarves, he's much happier, he looks straight into the camera.
Where's Kuru? He'd be delighted....

Well, I actually think he's not much happy with the camera in the first place...

Lalaith · 04-16-2007, 01:01 PM

Well yes, that's what I thought, too.
But I also think he thinks of the elves as more, well, private to him.

davem · 04-16-2007, 01:08 PM

It seems to be an out take from the Tolkien in Oxford documentary which the BBC broadcast in 1968. Well, I say an out take, but I've only seen clips from it, but that's what it looks like anyway. Carpenter notes that he behaved 'unsfelfconsciously in front of the camera', so I'd go with Lalaith on this. He seems a bit uncomfortable trying to give a 'soundbite' of The Sil. Interesting that he doesn't want to discuss the origin of the Dwarves - & that he still refers to the Valar as 'gods'. The consensus is that he had stopped referring to them as 'gods' back in the 30's. Maybe shorthand for an interviewer unfamiliar with the story, but interesting nonetheless.....

The Might · 04-16-2007, 01:26 PM

Thanks for the link, and also for the transcript.
Without reading it I could only understand 30% of what he said.
It's hard to understand a native speaker sometimes...

Legate of Amon Lanc · 04-16-2007, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Might

Thanks for the link, and also for the transcript.
Without reading it I could only understand 30% of what he said.
It's hard to understand a native speaker sometimes...

Oh, that's good, I was afraid I was the only one...

Though I think really great part of it does the way he talks, and the quality also does not help it... it reminds me of one of our university professors who always speaks (while on a lecture) with hand in front of his mouth. So I can quite well imagine how Tolkien's lectures might have looked (or sounded) like...

Anyway, do you know if they keep clips like that there still? On the same address?

Bêthberry · 04-16-2007, 01:03 PM

Great find, davem.

If that video clip is a fair sample of The Professor's speech patterns, now I certainly understand all the comments from his students that he was not an eloquent lecturer--although I do recall W.H. Auden lauding him on his readings of Beowulf.

Honestly, I felt like grabbing his cheeks and shouting, move your jaw and mouth, man, speak that we may hear ye!!!

btw, I just went back to listen a second time, and now I get a "forbidden" message that the video cannot be played.

04-16-2007, 12:54 PM	#2
Lalaith Blithe Spirit Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,779	This clip is fantastic, thank you Davem. The stuff he is saying is fascinating, but so is the body language. He really doesn't like talking about elves. His eyes are darting about all over the place, and he keeps covering his mouth with his hands. Then he talks about dwarves, he's much happier, he looks straight into the camera. Where's Kuru? He'd be delighted.... __________________ Out went the candle, and we were left darkling

04-16-2007, 01:01 PM	#4
Lalaith Blithe Spirit Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,779	Well yes, that's what I thought, too. But I also think he thinks of the elves as more, well, private to him. __________________ Out went the candle, and we were left darkling

04-16-2007, 01:08 PM	#5
davem Illustrious Ulair Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties Posts: 4,240	It seems to be an out take from the Tolkien in Oxford documentary which the BBC broadcast in 1968. Well, I say an out take, but I've only seen clips from it, but that's what it looks like anyway. Carpenter notes that he behaved 'unsfelfconsciously in front of the camera', so I'd go with Lalaith on this. He seems a bit uncomfortable trying to give a 'soundbite' of The Sil. Interesting that he doesn't want to discuss the origin of the Dwarves - & that he still refers to the Valar as 'gods'. The consensus is that he had stopped referring to them as 'gods' back in the 30's. Maybe shorthand for an interviewer unfamiliar with the story, but interesting nonetheless..... __________________ “Everything was an object. If you killed a dwarf you could use it as a weapon – it was no different to other large heavy objects."

04-16-2007, 01:26 PM	#6
The Might Guard of the Citadel Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Oxon Posts: 2,205	Thanks for the link, and also for the transcript. Without reading it I could only understand 30% of what he said. It's hard to understand a native speaker sometimes... __________________ “The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.” Delos B. McKown

04-16-2007, 01:03 PM	#8
Bêthberry Cryptic Aura Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 6,003	Great find, davem. If that video clip is a fair sample of The Professor's speech patterns, now I certainly understand all the comments from his students that he was not an eloquent lecturer--although I do recall W.H. Auden lauding him on his readings of Beowulf. Honestly, I felt like grabbing his cheeks and shouting, move your jaw and mouth, man, speak that we may hear ye!!! btw, I just went back to listen a second time, and now I get a "forbidden" message that the video cannot be played. Last edited by Bêthberry; 04-16-2007 at 01:09 PM.