Is THIS how you imagined the vampires? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Bêthberry · 07-02-2007, 08:55 AM

Morthoron, that's a fascinating phrase, spirit skin. It of course provides yet another example of the philological underpinings of Tolkien's work.

All this discussion of skin and hides reminds me that Whitby has another claim to fame: in the late 16th C one Thomas Chaloner defeated the Vatican international monopoly on alum, an element used in the curing leather, when he recognised the Vatican stone as the same as the stone on his estate in Yorkshire. His alum industry apparently sustantially undercut the costs demanded by the Vatican. Now there's a Yorkshireman for you!

Lal, your comments about Whitby's importance to Tolkien and Bram Stoker are fascinating. Do you have an online link to Tolkien's drawing of Whitby Harbour? Can it be found in J R R Tolkien: Artist and Illustrator? Perhaps someone who owns that tome could scan the picture and reproduce it here?

However, for all that fascinating history about Stoker and Whitby, Whitby is important for another subject very close to Tolkien's heart: Whitby Abby under St. Hilde was a renown centre for Anglo Saxon learning. In fact, it was a double monastery, for both men and women, and St. Hilde is held instrumental in the Cædmon story of his inspiration and famous hymn, said by some to be the first English poem. So although Tolkien may have picked up on the local lore about vampires, his main interest in the town could have been its Anglo Saxon heritage rather than research into vampires.

Still, it is intriguing to think of something in common between vampires and the elves: both are nearly immortal creatures for whom longevity breeds great ennui.

Lalwendë · 07-02-2007, 09:14 AM

Now as it happens I have a link to that pic here as I tried to get close to where Tolkien stood, but the modern fish market stands in the way: http://lalwendeboggart.livejournal.com/104238.html*

It is also in Artist & Illustrator, together with a sketch he did of the Abbey - a view which is identical today, despite the Abbey being shelled in WWI. Now Tolkien did take a lot of holidays on the Yorkshire coast so I wonder how fond he was of it (I know he was not all that fond of Filey, but Whitby is about 1,000% nicer!) in its own right? Did the Caedmon story stir him up? Together with Captain Cook and Dracula, Caedmon is another figure you hear a lot about in the town - there is a fab cross dedicated to scenes of his life right at the top of the 199 steps.

There is of course the Middle-earth Tavern which has a display of Tolkien posters and whatnot - but I do not know and can't find out if it was named for Tolkien or Caedmon! They do a nice chilled pint of Theakston's Old Peculier and it's almost opposite another odd ancient thing in Whitby, the Penny Hedge, planted in the harbour each Whitsun!

The place fair sucks you in with it's embarrassingly dense levels of history (and beer and fish and handmade chocolates etc

) - I can't see how Tolkien could have failed to be inspired by the tales - Stoker himself took the Demeter from a real shipwreck and the black dog from the local legend of the scary Barguest.

*Wot's happened to the texty/weblink doo-dah? I liked that!

07-02-2007, 08:55 AM	#1
Bêthberry Cryptic Aura Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 6,003	Morthoron, that's a fascinating phrase, spirit skin. It of course provides yet another example of the philological underpinings of Tolkien's work. All this discussion of skin and hides reminds me that Whitby has another claim to fame: in the late 16th C one Thomas Chaloner defeated the Vatican international monopoly on alum, an element used in the curing leather, when he recognised the Vatican stone as the same as the stone on his estate in Yorkshire. His alum industry apparently sustantially undercut the costs demanded by the Vatican. Now there's a Yorkshireman for you! Lal, your comments about Whitby's importance to Tolkien and Bram Stoker are fascinating. Do you have an online link to Tolkien's drawing of Whitby Harbour? Can it be found in J R R Tolkien: Artist and Illustrator? Perhaps someone who owns that tome could scan the picture and reproduce it here? However, for all that fascinating history about Stoker and Whitby, Whitby is important for another subject very close to Tolkien's heart: Whitby Abby under St. Hilde was a renown centre for Anglo Saxon learning. In fact, it was a double monastery, for both men and women, and St. Hilde is held instrumental in the Cædmon story of his inspiration and famous hymn, said by some to be the first English poem. So although Tolkien may have picked up on the local lore about vampires, his main interest in the town could have been its Anglo Saxon heritage rather than research into vampires. Still, it is intriguing to think of something in common between vampires and the elves: both are nearly immortal creatures for whom longevity breeds great ennui. __________________ I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away.

07-02-2007, 09:14 AM	#2
Lalwendë A Mere Boggart Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: under the bed Posts: 4,737	Now as it happens I have a link to that pic here as I tried to get close to where Tolkien stood, but the modern fish market stands in the way: http://lalwendeboggart.livejournal.com/104238.html* It is also in Artist & Illustrator, together with a sketch he did of the Abbey - a view which is identical today, despite the Abbey being shelled in WWI. Now Tolkien did take a lot of holidays on the Yorkshire coast so I wonder how fond he was of it (I know he was not all that fond of Filey, but Whitby is about 1,000% nicer!) in its own right? Did the Caedmon story stir him up? Together with Captain Cook and Dracula, Caedmon is another figure you hear a lot about in the town - there is a fab cross dedicated to scenes of his life right at the top of the 199 steps. There is of course the Middle-earth Tavern which has a display of Tolkien posters and whatnot - but I do not know and can't find out if it was named for Tolkien or Caedmon! They do a nice chilled pint of Theakston's Old Peculier and it's almost opposite another odd ancient thing in Whitby, the Penny Hedge, planted in the harbour each Whitsun! The place fair sucks you in with it's embarrassingly dense levels of history (and beer and fish and handmade chocolates etc ) - I can't see how Tolkien could have failed to be inspired by the tales - Stoker himself took the Demeter from a real shipwreck and the black dog from the local legend of the scary Barguest. Wot's happened to the texty/weblink doo-dah? I liked that! __________________ Gordon's alive!*