Faith and Choices

[Raynor]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

It also shows how different relationships were in years gone by, that a woman could expect to eventually be married to any serious suitor - Tolkien was forced to be honourable

Well, it was Father Francis Morgan's intervention, on behalf of Tolkien's own interest, regarding professional career, that put a stop to their meetings. Even when Tolkien lives up to his word concerning the separation while studying, his guardian is still "not enthusiastic, but accepts the inevitable".

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

she seems to have thought he may have given her up as she was engaged to someone else!

Indeed. In the Chronology made by Hammond and Scull, it is mentioned that Tolkien received a reply from Edith on 3 January, 1913, telling that:

she is engaged to George Field, the brother of one of her school friends, Molly Field; but the letter also makes it clear that she had done so because she had not expected that Ronald would still care for her and George was kind and someone she felt she could accept as a husband. Tolkien writes again, and they arrange to meet.

I guess that insight and estel weren't her foremost strong points at that time...

[Lalwendë]

she is engaged to George Field, the brother of one of her school friends, Molly Field; but the letter also makes it clear that she had done so because she had not expected that Ronald would still care for her and George was kind and someone she felt she could accept as a husband. Tolkien writes again, and they arrange to meet.

It's that bit which is very telling of the times, and relieves Edith of not being so hopeful! What woman nowadays would simply settle for someone 'acceptable'? It sounds like a business transaction. Yet in those days a husband was almost essential as life as a spinster wasn't much fun, and the longer a woman left it the less likely she would be to get married. Granted, spinsterhood was not as bad a prospect as it was in the days of Jane Austen as women now had the option of working for a living and were not beholden to a male relative any longer in terms of property rights etc, but the cultural aspect was still hard to shift!

So I'll not be too harsh on poor Edith

[Raynor]

I don't think that at that time she had a difficult material situation, as it seems she still has her small properties around Birmingham. She confessed in the letter she felt "on the shelf" and knew no other young man than George. However, the "timing" of her engagement shows complete lack of care for her previous declarations and promises from the days of Duchess Road. If her engagement would have been already consummated by marriage before Tolkien's 21st birthday (or if she postponed any engagement or involvement at all until that date), she would have had a higher standing in this matter . As such, her lukewarmness shows she is simply ... drifting. Compare this to Tolkien's torment, as it appears in the letters. Of course, it all worked out for the best in the end, and that is all that matters.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Raynor

If her engagement would have been already consummated by marriage before Tolkien's 21st birthday (or if she postponed any engagement or involvement at all until that date), she would have had a higher standing in this matter.

Well, I would consider tha fact that she didn't plan to marry before Tolkien's 21st birthday shows fairly clearly that she was not lukewarm; and I can see how a woman might feel rejected in such circumstances and look around for a "backup plan". Imagine, for instance, if he hadn't contacted her after turning 21! No matter how much one is in love, it's not sensible to pin all one's hopes on something as uncertain as Tolkien probably seemed to her, after two years of no contact.

[Raynor]

I could hardly consider her engagement as a door intentionally left open, an invitation to restart a relation. She appears to have simply discarded the matter altogether from her concerns, with no regard for what he would feel. Could she reasonably expect Tolkien to disregard her engagement and still pop the question? I certainly doubt that. Concerning being sensible or not, I daresay this should not have been the case, if their love had the same meaning for her as it did for Tolkien - there seems to have been no pressing matter for her to be engaged then. A few more months, if she really cared about him, would have hardly made a difference. But I am repeating my own arguments now

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Raynor

Could she reasonably expect Tolkien to disregard her engagement and still pop the question?

Apparently, she could.

Actually, I could see it being a matter of indignation, even. "Well, you won't speak to me until you finish school? FINE, then. I will get engaged to someone else."
But in any event, if she truly didn't care, why would she immediately break off her engagement to one man in order to marry another who she hadn't seen for 2 years? Surely it would have been a lot of trouble for nothing, if she was actuallly "lukewarm" as you say.

*is glad, for Edith's sake, that JRR didn't think like Raynor!*

[Raynor]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Apparently, she could.

Well, can you oblige us with some quote that she expected that of him?

Originally Posted by Rikae

But in any event, if she truly didn't care, why would she immediately break off her engagement to one man in order to marry another who she hadn't seen for 2 years? Surely it would have been a lot of trouble for nothing, if she was actuallly "lukewarm" as you say.

As I said, drifting .

Originally Posted by Rikae

*is glad, for Edith's sake, that JRR didn't think like Raynor!*

Well, I already made the case that sense (as in reason) shouldn't have anything to do with it when it comes to true love .

[Raynor]

Originally Posted by Rikae

do you think that Tolkien's couples showed any "drifting" of this sort?

Hm, first to come to mind are Finduilas and Eowyn. And their respective companies ....