Faith and Choices

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Raynor

Could she reasonably expect Tolkien to disregard her engagement and still pop the question?

Apparently, she could.

Actually, I could see it being a matter of indignation, even. "Well, you won't speak to me until you finish school? FINE, then. I will get engaged to someone else."
But in any event, if she truly didn't care, why would she immediately break off her engagement to one man in order to marry another who she hadn't seen for 2 years? Surely it would have been a lot of trouble for nothing, if she was actuallly "lukewarm" as you say.

*is glad, for Edith's sake, that JRR didn't think like Raynor!*

[Raynor]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Apparently, she could.

Well, can you oblige us with some quote that she expected that of him?

Originally Posted by Rikae

But in any event, if she truly didn't care, why would she immediately break off her engagement to one man in order to marry another who she hadn't seen for 2 years? Surely it would have been a lot of trouble for nothing, if she was actuallly "lukewarm" as you say.

As I said, drifting .

Originally Posted by Rikae

*is glad, for Edith's sake, that JRR didn't think like Raynor!*

Well, I already made the case that sense (as in reason) shouldn't have anything to do with it when it comes to true love .

[Rikae]

One doesn't "drift" from one engagement into another.

And, regarding the necessity of quotes, there is no reason to assume that Tolkien himself would have been less able to discern her intentions than you are, and he did, after all, propose.

EDIT: X'd with Esty.
And, to link this to the topic; do you think that Tolkien's couples showed any "drifting" of this sort? Could it be that he looked on it differently than we 21st century types do, as Lal suggested?

[Raynor]

Originally Posted by Rikae

do you think that Tolkien's couples showed any "drifting" of this sort?

Hm, first to come to mind are Finduilas and Eowyn. And their respective companies ....

[Rikae]

Good example.... I mean, I wouldn't say that the professor implied any disapproval of Eowyn's shift of affections from Aragorn to Faramir; the implication being that she was not "fated" to be with Aragorn, so her ultimate choice was in accordance with her destiny, and therefore honorable; but on the other hand, I don't see any disapproval in his portrayal of her interest in Aragorn, which seems quite sympathetic...

[Raynor]

Originally Posted by Rikae

I mean, I wouldn't say that the professor implied any disapproval of Eowyn's shift of affections from Aragorn to Faramir; the implication being that she was not "fated" to be with Aragorn, so her ultimate choice was in accordance with her destiny, and therefore honorable

Well... what does honor have to do with it? Anyway, I agree that the shift of affection is not disaproved. She actually needed it, it melted the frost in her heart.

Originally Posted by Rikae

I don't see any disapproval in his portrayal of her interest in Aragorn

Aragorn put it otherwise...

Originally Posted by The houses of healing, RotK

...in me she loves only a shadow and a thought: a hope of glory and great deeds, and lands far from the fields of Rohan

[Lalwendë]

What do you think of my idea that Eowyn's love for Aragorn is almost that of the very young, very naive soldier for his/her Captain? For the inspirational hero who suddenly breezes into their life? I wrote more about this on another thread but I can't remember which one and a search is not proving fruitful.

As this is love from a woman towards a man, it obviously (or should that be obviously?) comes across in terms of romance, but in the words expressed by Eowyn it can easily be read as love from the young man to the hero. And Eowyn does remind me of some of the tragic young men who were too young for enlistment but who lied in order to be signed up to go and fight in the fields of France and Belgium in WWI.

[Raynor]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

What do you think of my idea that Eowyn's love for Aragorn is almost that of the very young, very naive soldier for his/her Captain?

Hm, I wouldn't say I agree. If it were so, then Aragorn's sorrow and pitty that followed him ever since he left Dunharrow would have been unfounded, based on a wrong perception on his behalf, which I doubt was the case, considering also that Gandalf does not contradict him or the foundation of his feelings.

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Raynor

Hm, I wouldn't say I agree. If it were so, then Aragorn's sorrow and pitty that followed him ever since he left Dunharrow would have been unfounded, based on a wrong perception on his behalf, which I doubt was the case, considering also that Gandalf does not contradict him or the foundation of his feelings.

Note I'm not saying that is what she is or that is what she represents, but you can see that in her character and portrayal, especially if reading the work set against the basis of war and what it does to people. And even if Tolkien did feed that idea in (and how would we know, that's just something I can see in her - and he doesn't deconstruct everything! ) it doesn't preclude him feeling regret - either as a Captain might regret having to be harsh on the keen young hero or a taken man might regret having somehow attracted the love of a woman he could not/would not reciprocate.