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#1 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 903
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Mithalwen... you said this
Quote:
davem ... please understand that I am not finding any fault or error with Christopher putting together the SIL or finding a publisher for it. I am very glad that he did it. My point is more of a legal question based on the idea that when they bought the film rights to LOTR, everything in the appendicies was part of it. And that includes material that JRRT himself said was from The Silmarallion. When he used the term it was not really as a published book since that would not happen until after his death several years later. He was referring to it as a body of work on the First Age. My point is this: is it not possible for a legal department to advocate that since the legally own that information in the Appendicies for the purposes of film, that they have the right to other more detailed information that JRRT had also written up until that time and referred to by name or character or event in LOTR? I am not an attorney and would love to hear from one on this subject. But I do think it is an interesting perspective that is different than the conventional wisdom. |
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#2 | ||
Illustrious Ulair
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
Posts: 4,240
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I mean, are you saying that they have the rights to everything Tolkien wrote on M-e that could come under the heading 'The Silmarillion' - because a good part of it was written post LotR. Or should it only include M-e writings written up to the time Tolkien sold the rights? Or should it only include the Quenta Silmarillion proper - thereby excluding the Grey Annals/Annals of Valinor, the Gest of Beren & Luthien, the Narn i Hin Hurin, Athrabeth, Laws & Customs, the Numenor material, et al? What do you consider to constitute 'The Silmarillion' - everything Tolkien ever wrote on M-e? How much of the Gondolin material is part of The Silmarillion? The Book of Lost Tales material is not 'The Silmarillion' & the Later Tuor was written post LotR & not part of the Quenta Silmarillion proper. Quote:
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#3 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 903
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Things are only accepted - until they are not. History and human nature have shown that again and again and again.
Up until recently, there seemed to be no interest in filming events other than the main body of LOTR and HOBBIT. And that still may be the way things are in reality. I, we, many of us are speculating about things that are only seen as shadows in the cave lit by a fire which at times burns bright and then wanes. So this is conjecture. My point is a simple one that I feel nearly everyone has overlooked. The holder of the film rights to LOTR and HOBBIT owns much much more than most people have taken for granted. And, if they were willing to push the issue with some creative legal thinking, they could own even more. |
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#4 | |
Loremaster of Annúminas
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,330
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No. While I suppose one could try to film the two-paragraph synopsis, it couldn't track the remaining material at all. Your other question about 'diminishing value' is just a roundabout waty of making a similar but even more audacious claim: that when UA bought the LR fim rights they somehow acquired an ownership interest in everything JRRT might publish in the future. Again, no. UA/Zaentz/New Lin's rights to do something based on the Appendices text is unaffected by the subsequent publication of The Silmarillion. (But see the South Park episode where Chef is sued by a record company for "prospective plagiarism", for having written a song the company ripped off twenty years later). If this chutzpatic theory had any merit, then surely New Line could make and distribute The Hobbit on the grounds that it's 'incorporated' in the LR!
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The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it. |
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#5 | |
Late Istar
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,224
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#6 | |
Wisest of the Noldor
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The only way I can see to get round this is for the filmmakers to say they're drawing on Appendix A, then sneak in Akallabęth material to flesh the story out. They'd have to be prepared to go to court over it, though. |
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#7 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 903
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Aiwendil is correct in saying that you are misstating my point.
WCH said Quote:
That is NOT "everything JRRT might publish in the future" as claimed. It is material already discussed by JRRT and sold as film rights. Put yourself in the position of the holder of those film rights. You bought the rights, have yet to use them fully, and then see the heirs of the author rewrite the stuff you already own, albeit in far more detailed fashion and much fuller treatment. What would you as rights holder say about this? Again, I am no attorney but I do think this is not as clear cut as some of you think. I also think such a claim could go a long way in the court system and the outcome would not be a sure thing for the Estate. |
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#8 | |
Pilgrim Soul
Join Date: May 2004
Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle...
Posts: 9,461
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Wrong but not randomly...
Quote:
To clarify ..having checked it was the index that was missing - the appendices delayed publication but were included. However it may be worth adding that it seems that there was a great disparity in English and US copyright legislation else the rip off edition would not have been possible.
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“But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.”
Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace |
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