WW XXXXI: With a Twist

[Macalaure]

A quick look at the votes

Legate for Valier - an early vote which appears rather confused, but ordo-ishly confused.
Boro for morm - innocentish, I would say.
TM for Eomer- again a confused-looking vote, but in his case I'm not so sure whether innocently or not.
Nerwen - there's not really have the best reasoning behind her vote. But it doesn't look as confused as Legate, so the vote doesn't look exactly good.
Rikae for Valier - the vote which got the waggon up and rolling. Third votes for innocents look bad by default, but would Wolf-Rikae put herself into such a situation? Among morm, Nerwen, and Eomer there must've been another innocent to vote for which would have looked less bad. I'm not sure about Rikae. She bears watching.
SpM for Valier - same as above, a Saucepan Wolf could have easily found someone better to vote for. Still worth watching, though.
morm for Nerwen - Valier's innocence makes morm look better, I think. Another vote for Valier, easy to justify, would have saved him (4-2 at the time). Of course he'd easily be gutsy enough to risk it and not get his hands dirty.
Aganzir for Mac - yes, she goes along with her suspicion, but what she ultimately does is to throw her vote away.
Farael for Valier - if morm or Nerwen are wolves, then Farael likely is one, too. Otherwise, it's just a safe vote. A little suspicious.
Isabell and Eomer for Nerwen - if we only knew Nerwen's role.

No vote that screams wolf, but a lot that are worthy of watching based on them, I think.

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by SPM

Actually, as your helpful quote indicates, I said it was a toss up between you. You because you were (are) my top suspect, Valier because she was my second suspect and my vote for her was more likely to count.

I knew that Aganzir would probably vote for you. But, of those left to vote, it looked to me unlikely that anyone else would. I looked in for the last few minutes up to the deadline and would most likely have switched my vote to you had there been any possibility of lynching you.

I am not twisting the facts. Merely explaining my own thought processes. Why are you so eager to (mis)interpret them? Actually, I should say reinterpret them, as you clearly thought yetserDay that you were top of my suspect list and, on the basis of it, commented on me having voted for Valier instead of you!

I just reread your vote post to make sure I didn't get it wrong, but I don't think I did. It might well be that this was your thought process, but that doesn't get clear to me from your post alone, and that is all I can interpret. As for my comment yesterday, I was wondering why two people who suspected me in a row suddenly put other people at the top of their lists just before they voted. I was also joking a little (note smiley).

[The Saucepan Man]

Actually, troubling though you are to me Mac, I pretty much agree with your list. Except that I would not be too quick to dismiss Legate’s vote as ordo-ish. He was the first to raise suspicion of Valier, based on her lack of reasoning for her accusations (an easy argument for a Wolf to make) and the first to get the ball rolling against her.

Of all the votes cast, the Might’s vote is the most redolent of a ‘throw-away’ vote. I can’t recall many, if any, expressing much strong suspicion of Eomer yesterDay. Aganzir’s vote less so, since Mac had attracted a fair amount of comment and she had made clear her distrust of him. However, as I said, my own feeling was that few would vote for him, so it does have a ‘throw-away’ air about it. One thing I am fairly sure of, though. It is a very unlikely Wolf-on-Wolf vote.

Originally Posted by Mac

I just reread your vote post to make sure I didn't get it wrong, but I don't think I did. It might well be that this was your thought process, but that doesn't get clear to me from your post alone, and that is all I can interpret.

Fine, but it seems to me to be a strange basis upon which to go accusing someone of twisting the facts.

[Macalaure]

Alright, Aganzir and Rikae wanted to see my reasons to be suspicious of Aganzir again. Let's get over with it already:


Aganzir

- she suspects each of the people that suspected Nogrod, throwing wolf-on-wolves everywhere - a very smart way make people back away from Noggie without appearing like defending him (126, 131)

- then she decides to give a crucial vote to Nogrod - her top suspect's (me) top suspect. Usually, an innocent wouldn't like to do that, but the wolf-on-wolf comes in handy. About the Shasta-thing, I bought her explanation, so I'm not going to repeat that part.

- recall the voting for Nogrod. Me and Saucepan gave him early votes, Shasta and Legate later retractions. Aganzir's vote was the only one which came during the "general" voting. If there was a wolvish vote for Nogrod, and I'm sure there was, then it was Aganzir's.

That was all I had yesterday. Yes, it's not much, I know. However, we're talking about Aganzir here. As she confidently pointed out herself, she hasn't ever gotten a vote before - but she has been a wolf twice already!

-

because you'd rather I spent my time defending myself than going on suspecting you.
....
Trying to make me use my energy on defending myself rather than suspecting him.

No need to repeat it, everybody heard you. It doesn't make more sense by repetition. But talking of suspecting me, may I in turn ask you what your case against me was made of again?
All I remember is the possibility of Nog and me being wolves and a few far-fetched interpretations.

- her reaction to Isabell is very interesting. She seemed to be rather cool, though determined, about my case. But then she tries to drive away Izzy from suspecting her quite aggressively. It seems to me like she thought she got away from being suspected by more than one person, and was annoyed that there actually turned out to be more.

I would also like to remind everybody that Aganzir was Valier's first hunch of the last day.

Originally Posted by SPM

Fine, but it seems to me to be a strange basis upon which to go accusing someone of twisting the facts.

Maybe twisting the facts was too strong. But the way I saw it, you tried to change the reasoning behind your vote - which is not an unsuspicious vote, after all.

[The Might]

SPM, you must of course also acknowledge that my vote for Eomer came at a very early point as I was unsure that I would be able to go online till the deadline, which as seen I was not.
And I was actually hoping that others might agree, but as seen none did.
So please don't try to twist things as you want them to sound like.

I do feel a bit better about him after reading the last post. It's good that he gave us his thoughts for a change.

I guess we won't find out who was the wolves' target...that would be interesting.

To SPM, I thought that way because Kath defended Shasta after Nerwen's attack. So it kind of figured that if Shasta, who I did suspect at that time was a wolf, so would be Kath.

[Farael]

You know, the more I think of it, the more the argument between Mac and SPM worries me. At this point I'm feeling like one of them is a wolf trying to get the other one in trouble.

Question is, whom?

SPM has been calm and collected throughout the game, he's not slipped once. Mac has a swagger about him that I don't like, I'd lean to think he's the wolf on this pair if it wasn't for the whole mess about Nogrod

However, I took the liberty of looking through Mac's posts on the first day, and he accused Nogwolf pretty much from the get-go.

I am starting to think it was a wolfish ploy gone bad. Or is it gone good? it'll be all but impossible to get Mac lynched.

Yes, I am back-tracking over what I said yesterday, but I begin to think that we'd be better off without Mac. He's going to be a point of contention until the last day, he has been somewhat helpful but I just don't like the way he's acting (and reacting to others).

The Nogrod situation gives me pause, but the more I see him argue with SPM and attack him on weak grounds, the more Mac incriminates himself in my eyes.

[Boromir88]

You know, the more I think of it, the more the argument between Mac and SPM worries me. At this point I'm feeling like one of them is a wolf trying to get the other one in trouble.~Farael

Or they are two talkative innocents who are simply lost. That happens quite a bit, when you get a couple of "leaders" they end up turning on eachother. One gets lynched and then the other one is as good as dead the next day...come to find they're both innocent.

For the moment, SpM looks reasonable and fine. I particulary like his points about Kath yesterday and so far today I've seen a Sauce that I like to see. A thoughtful, considering all possibilities, person...someone good to have to counter the stubborn, "judge by feeling," type of person that I am.

As far as Mac, I figure he spotted a wolf on Day 1, might as well trust him, until he is horribly wrong. I mean if he is a wolf, he'll reach a point where he can't keep lynching his buddies and innocents will start dying off. The game I referenced before when Nogrod casted two crucial votes to get his pals lynched. Well, what finished him off was simply, I was dead after the 2nd wolf died...leaving Noggie as the lone wolf. But the intellegent villagers figured out..."wait a second, a couple days have gone by, why is Nogrod still alive? Why hasn't the last wolf killed the most assumed looking innocent yet?" Catching onto Nogrod isn't going to give Mac a free pass to the end...trust me on that, but I don't see why we should buy into this quacked out theory when there's other "theories" which are far more possible. I mean from the looks of it you're better off if you just keep lynching innocents, but as soon as you catch a wolf the automatic reaction is..."Oh he's gotta be a wolf." When really it was someone noticed something was off.

Care to explain why Boro? I could go either way on both of them, but I have stronger suspects at present.~SpM

Sure thing...though I think I jumped the gun on Isabell. That was based off of a certain person's judgement, from yesterday, but as far as her post today soon enough I'll know her true identity. So, I recant Isabell, but substitute Aganzir.

As far as morm, on Day 1 I thought he was playing a bit conservatively...not what I typically expect from morm. He didn't seem to be too committal to anyone. He accused Rikae of acting wolfishly by tossing around accusations, but in the meantime poked accusations at Nerwen, Farael, Rikae, and me.

Then on Day 2, I followed up with what Rikae pointed out, that he came out pushing the Mac-Nogrod stuff; something I'm not buying into. Then in post 204, as Mac observes, he acts as if he is backing off of suspecting me saying he felt I was being "genuine." When not 15 minutes ago in the post before he was prodding suspicion at me:

If Boro or Eomer (not both) is a wolf that could explain why they didn't vote Nogrod but I think I'm off base and geting into unrealistic scenarios...however with that said Eomer and Boromir are perfect candidates to pull off the most unrealistic of scenarios.

In fact, me being a "bold wolf" that would do unrealistic things seems to be something that morm likes to remind everyone of...from Day 1:

Boro is an incredibly bold player who would definately play a bluff like this if he were a wolf hoping to smoke out the true seer, thinking the seer might be a bit rash and reveal him/herself prematurely. Of course, it could be that Boro is simply an innocent and is provoking reaction. I would think the latter to be true but with his quick vote of Kath, who hasn't acted overly strange to me, it adds a bit to the overall suspicion. (Post 147)

++Boro

I really do believe he is playing a rather bold game, it's when he's at his best, and I've seen him before do things like this and get away with it. He is in the top 3 to 5 most bold players. What he has said doesn't add up to me and is the one who sticks out to me the most at this point. (Post 153)

And into Day 2, after he had apparently backed off of me:

Boromir seems rather cocky about the whole thing. A few comments have been given and the manner in which he presents himself doesn't sit well with me. I also find it odd that he basically refuses to believe the possibility that Mac/Nogrod were conspiring simply because 'it's never been done before'. Seems rather weak and that he's not open to other possibilities. His votes have been without any real reason. Something stinks of wet fur with that one.

In fact this whole post (post 231) just looks like a wolf. Morm, as observed in Day 1, just looks extremely non-commital. He blamed his "weak" accusations on Day 1, but by this time we were well into Day 2, and he is still doing the tip-toeing around stuff. Or is just making general statements like "Legate seems innocent and helpful." and "Eomer ,while completely touched in the head, I think is innocent." I do that on Day 1 to get some discussion going, but as said this is well into Day 2 now.

Then finally, he makes a strong argued case against someone (post 245), but who was it against? Nerwen. Nerwen has caused confusion and has been a top candidate right since this village took off, so sorry to say this, but that's something that wouldn't be hard to do.

[Boromir88]

You seem to be focusing solely on one person. Of course, that happens to be me which doesn't bother me in that regard but rather it bothers me because you seem unwilling to even entertain the notion that others might be suspicious.~morm

I keep things simple, take one wolf at a time. Ask Farael, he knows, when I get into the mode of thinking I caught someone, I will continue to attack until I know said person's identity...whether they end up dead or I find out by other means.

I fully believe you are not the seer as if you were you would have dreamt of me and left me alone.

What is with people thinking I'm trying to pose as the seer?

As it stands I think you are a crazy innocent on a mission that will prove catastrophic if you continue to persue it because, like I said you are innocent, I believe, too so if you kill me it will increase the suspicion around you and only lead to your ultimate demise.

If that was a threat to back off or else...it didn't work. We all meet our demise eventually. It's fruitless to try and lynch me, and getting killed by the wolves wouldn't bother me either.

On that note Boro, I don't feel you've given any real substantive answer as to why you suspect me.

So, you give me a scolding, dismissing me as a crazy innocent, but you still feel the need to add that last sentence? Do you not feel safe enough if you try to convince people I'm spiralling down into a self-destructive path? You have to tack on that extra bit that I haven't given anything of "substance?"