Werewolf XLII: The meaning of life forever

[Thinlómien]

Thinlómien the Elf-Orc stood up to her full height, which wasn't, unfortunately, very impressive. Still, she held her head up high and a grin crept to her face, the corners of her mouth first twitching down, then up, revealing a monstrous row of yellow teeth. She licked her knife. "Squirrel blood... you know I needed a new footbag..."

Then she sheathed the knife. She smiled wryly. "May Elbereth in all her wisdom show us the correct path..." All curelty was extinguished of her expression. "For such guidance is indeed needed. I'm going to face a tough choice toDay. Neither of you really looks wolvish. Not that you'd strike me as obvious innocents either.

It sure is an odd feeling to be here and discuss things in a polite manner while knowing that one of the ones you're talking with is far worse than he seems. I can very well see why Volo added these Days as an extra adrenaline-risers. My mind is buzzing already.

I'm quite glad to be against you two, anyway. I know I can trust Nogrod to be around and provide me something to get clues of. And I do believe TM won't be hypersilent either, though I'm not sure. Well, if he doesn't appear to contribute very much we others can always lynch him. Which brings me to another point.

Originally Posted by Noggie

My feelings from the Day 0.0 were that Lommy felt innocent and I was pretty confused with The Might. So if I'd have to vote now my vote would go to The Might. Happily I need not to do it right now.
The Might, you have 24 hours to make me rethink my vote! I will surely go through Lommy's and The Might's posting on Day 0.0 to see whether I should myself change my view (I had time to notice Agan had some major problems with Lommy).

While that indeed is a good way to put pressure on TM and make him post a lot, I really don't like the way you make that statement. Trying to build up alliances and rivalties already? I can see that as an attempt to provoke either of us others to act stupidly. Such an attempt doesn't surely make you suspicious - wolves and innocents alike are going to trick their fellow trial-combatants to react oddly during these rounds, but there's something wrong with the way you phrase it. Phrasing this feeling is quite difficult, but it seems like, you know, you're a wolf thinking he'd probably like to eliminate TM, but leaving all doors open by saying that. After that statement, you can always vote TM if he doesn't post "enough" or defend himself "well enough", or then you can say "ooh, I found something suspicious in Lommy's posts, I'll vote her". Surely it is no crime to enter the game prejudiced, but somehow, your statement rings slightly false to me.

But I'm afraid that doesn't mean I'm any clearer with my suspicions. YesterDay, I agreed with Noggie very much, which eventually lead me to ponder if it means he's innocent (as his mind seems to work the same way as mine) or if he's just a sneaky wolf... But I really didn't suspect him. As to TM, I must he really left no impression on me yesterday. I hope my mind will be clearer after a reread and an analysis.

As to the previous Days... well, the first two ones looked like Volo's playing a cruel joke on us and is pitting three people of the same role against each other. I mean, Legate, Valier and Menel all seemed rather unsincere. I was inclined to believe Legate was the wolf in the trio, though, until he made that very weird final show of his - it left me completely baffled. So I can't really tell which of them was the wolf.

I'm equally undecided about Roa, Naria and McCaber, this time because they all seemed so innocent. (Yes, even Roa whom I suspected on Day0).

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Because Roa would never waver when she's a wolf. You may discuss why someone looks different than "normal" in a game but with people like Roa it would be just preposterous to assume that she is afraid or nervous because she is a wolf. She isn't. She's the real cool killer when a wolf. But if she was a seer she might have tried a more agreeable style trying not to get lynched.

I disagree. While you raise a very good point of her being a cool killer, I think she's a cool ordo and a cool gifted as well. I can't see acting softer as a gifted as her vice (or virtue). So I'm quite baffled about her role. McCaber's disappearance was odd, but I'm inclined to think him somewhat innocent because he was willing to wait for Naria. I think a newbie wolf might well have just grasped the chance and caused her lynch. (I might just be underestimating new players, though. ) Naria, on the other hand, looked foul but felt fair, to quote a certain book. I mean, her actions in her own defense look somewhat suspicious, but they rather give me a feel of anxious innocent Naria than a wolvish Naria - who seems to be always readier to give up when accused. So, after all this writing and thinking (I can't think first and write then, I have to do them the same time, my apologies. ) I'd say Naria is innocent and either McCaber or Roa is the wolf of the three.

As to the latest, displeasingly silent Day, I'm still inclined to believe Aganzir innocent, even though she seemed less suspicious on Day0.0 than last Day. (Even though I have reservations of her, she always manages to fool me completely when's evil...) I can't really have an opinion on Shasta, and THE Ka seems sincere-ish. So... hmmm... any of them could be the wolf, but I'd possibly be the least surprised if they had managed to get it right at random and Shasta indeed was a wolf.

But on the whole, that sure looks a bit too optimistic. I can't believe we'd have been as lucky as to lynch three wolves this far, especially as the gorunds of voting have been quite feeble. So maybe I should reconsider and not lull myself into a false sense of security...

I'll be back a while later to reread and analyse Noggie and Miggie and throw in a few other comments."

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

While that indeed is a good way to put pressure on TM and make him post a lot, I really don't like the way you make that statement. Trying to build up alliances and rivalties already? I can see that as an attempt to provoke either of us others to act stupidly.

Well my initial point was to try and challenge The Might to post as you noted. I'd hate to vote him because he doesn't take part as I'd rather have a real choice between you two. That's why I thought I should help him to to see a reason to post. And posting a lot always enhances the chances that one says things that reveal one's treachery. Therefore let's speak a lot. The wolf is under pressure then.

Added to that I will stand behind my standards anyhow. People actually playing this game whatever their role = good, people just trying to hang around and sneak through whatever their role = bad.

I mean this is a game which one should enjoy playing and not only by counting the wins and losses. A great game lost is million times better than a lousy victory.

So I just spoke my mind. Sorry if you don't like it Lommy.

But also I must say that it's funny you did not include the part of my post following the quote where I said I'm going to look after the posts of both of you two to make up my mind only after that - both from Day 0.0 and even more toDay.

So picking the parts that suit you? Even intentionally misrepresenting the meaning behind it? That's what wolves do as they need to fabricate their cases...

I hope I have time to scan through the posts of you two before I go to sleep and make some comments on them.

(OOC: Lommy and A Little Green are here at my place and we will be spending some latenight together offline... I have an early morning call tomorrow so I will be most active in the latter part of toDay)

[Nogrod]

What I have with the Might?

Three posts on Day 0.0, all towards the end of the Day. Nicely placed even if RL-things are a matter to consider here and thus the placing of the posts can't be made any real case against one.

Still it could be intrerpreted as deliberately safe.

It could... which does not mean it should.


The first post gives the impression he's totally confused about the general outline of the game. Might be true and doesn't prove anything pro or con.

The second post says he's read the Admin. thread and now understands the basic mechanics of the game. Says he sees why votes could matter but then again downplays the meaning of them. Nice and square. But why to defend this position with:

I can't really say who is suspicious since it is easy for wolves to defend themselves as they don't have to try and defend any others from their pack.

So why are you downplaying any definitive action like voting on Day 0.0? Because you don't want to do it as a wolf - Legate pointed it out well enough that the wolves should stay easy with their suspicions as they might later regret them after they learned they had made cases against their fellows? (btw. Legate a nice try to signal your fellows "don't do it!" ).

I must admit that in my first WWs I did always consider quiets more suspicious and louds rather helpful then furry and I still stick to this, but this doesn't really matter that much to me anymore.

"then" or "than"? That kind of makes a real difference. I guess it is a typo but I'd like to hear from you Might as that kind of changes the meaning of your sentence and also points towards different things with your vote later... I'm not saying this is a big point as I think you meant "than" but if that presupposition is true your later actions should be looked a bit differently...

I know myself there can be many reasons why a player is simply not able to say much on the first Day and so I'm not going to concentrate too much on it all.

One of the reasons being you realised what Legate said?



Then the theory of yours. Why did you came forwards with it? What was the basic motivation there? You said:

After all the twists and turns last WW I think we might be seeing something similar here as well.
I mean, after all the wolves don't do anything, nor do the gifteds.
My humble theory is that we were all made innocents

It's fun to find you use that term "we" after seeing that one of your basic reasons to vote for me was that I used the term "we" innocents...

I mean many an innocent or gifted have talked about "us" before... so what were you trieng to achieve with that point? Trying to get rid of a possibly hard enemy? Maybe you were as confused with the trials as you were with the more general things and thought it wise to go on suspecting me after Legate had done so and you thought you had a free ticket there with two against one?

Happily we were all wrong and those initial divisions given as examples by Volo weren't the real thing at all...

So were you kind of trying to play in a game where you thought that after Legate's suspicion it would be easy for you to capitulate by making a suspicion on me... (and was I wrong with Legate then?)

The third and last post:

simply because I really don't like his playing style.
.......
seems to rather make up reasons to accuse many.
.......
I know he is the loudest, but I really don't like all this noise he's making and I will take a good look at thim as the game progresses.

Simply because you don't like the playing style - on a Day 0.0 where no one is to be lynched? Now what is that reasoning? If you were an innocent you would have told us the truth why someone looked bad in your eyes. So you sniffed the air around and concluded that you should vote for someone who looks innocent and then went on with it?

I'll not go back to this "we innocents" stuff anymore as The Might has does it himself but look at the claim: "seems to rather make up reasons to accuse many". Now what else an innocent would do? I know thew wolves would love to have a quiet Day when all these trials would go on by hunches and timing-tactics...

I

Originally Posted by THe Might

will take a good look at thim as the game progresses

Empty words until proven right. Do it man! And check Lommy as well... Do something!3
I may have my suspicions on Lommy - and I do have them - but if you don't come clear with these and actually post what is it you're suspecting then I need to consider voting you.

But I will have a closer look at Lommy as well tomorrow after I get from work. I'll be around in the last seven hours or something like that...

But The Might, please post... I know Lommy will do that.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

So I just spoke my mind. Sorry if you don't like it Lommy.

Funny you should say that as I definitely agree with you that people should talk - and said as much.

Originally Posted by Nog

But also I must say that it's funny you did not include the part of my post following the quote where I said I'm going to look after the posts of both of you two to make up my mind only after that - both from Day 0.0 and even more toDay.

I included the part where you said you'd be looking at my posts as well and I thought that'd be enough. Besides, surely it can be read from my commentary of your voting policy that I was well aware of the fact that you are going to look at our posts. I see that I didn't mention anything about the fact that you were going to look through TM's posts as well, but that is irrelevant to what I said about what could be a wolf strategy of yours. Clear?

Anyway, I can't really see why did you make such a fuss out of me leaving out a sentence that was totally unnecessary from my point of view. Are you a wolf grasping at straws - at this point of the Day?

Originally Posted by Nogrod

So picking the parts that suit you? Even intentionally misrepresenting the meaning behind it? That's what wolves do as they need to fabricate their cases...

Come on. Do you really think that, as a wolf, I would be as stupid as to only pick a part of what you're saying and claim it's all you said and expect someone to believe me and not realise I'm being dishonest? Or what are you implying here?

I wasn't trying to misrepresent you or make you look furry. I merely speculated that your behaviour could be a wolvish ploy. What's wrong with it? I don't really see the point of getting that heated because of a speculative sort of suspicion that isn't even strong.

I can't recall you being this jumpy for ages. Which is weird. Wolves and gifteds may be jumpy, but I've not seen a jumpy Wolfgrod or a Giftgrod since your first games. So what's this? Are you trying a more cobbleresque wolf tactic or are you actually a cobbler creating havoc? Or are you just having a bad day?

Or are you just testing my reactions by trying to provoke a reaction with your jumpy aggressiveness? If yes, don't you see your tactic might backfire and lead me - who previously had no "suspicion preference" between you and TM - to actually suspect you?

I must say your current behaviour is perplexing me and I really don't know what to think of you.

It is better than TM's current behaviour, though. I can really draw no conclusions from it, for some reason.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

But there's something in her posts that I very much dislike, though I really can't put my finger on it.

Very much dislike? Oh no, she doesn't like me anymore! What a horrible fate, my friend hates me...

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I can see the sense of the statement - but it feels completely wrong. It feels like Lommy saw someone who was behaving suspiciously and turned it upside down. It resembles the way Legcobbler spoke in the last game. Or a Lommywolf who has seen a suspicious person and wants to defend her, hoping she's her fellow wolf. That's not the only time I get that feeling from her posts when she speaks about someone (eg. Groin in #81).

I have a growing feeling that my fellow players are not trusting my wit at all... As a wolf, would I really do that? Why take the risk of defending a supposed fellow (note, not even a known fellow)? And I don't like the way you make everything seem like a black/white matter. So being all the time in character is suspicious in principle and that's why you think I'm a wolf who thinks THE Ka suspicious and thus defends her? Did it cross your mind I don't necessarily think the same way you do, so your conclusions on my behaviour might not be valid? And as to the Groin Redbeard -case, well, I have nothing new to say and I really think newbies tend to look more furry than they are.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

The phrasing. Wrong. That's just wrong.

Well, obviously I can't reply to that in any way before you tell me what's wrong with it...

Now, I'm off to have a proper look at Nog's and Might's posts from Day0.

[Thinlómien]

Ok, I looked through their earlier posts and two things caught my attention:

1)

Originally Posted by Nogrod

And even if the wolves are on their own toDay it is right what Legate noted: they may toDay accidentally vote or make open suspicions over their mates and that might be a burden so it's suitable for the wolves to be lenient and nice to everyone. And what's more important, they should not voice any suspicions they actually have - for surely they are on the look out for their mates now - just not to spoil their game later. So look carefully at those being nice and smooth but also to fabricated suspicions eg. those that can be easily reverted as pure Day1 testing or banter.

Now I'm not sure at all if that statement sounds reasonable and innocentish. Many people I know play very individually as wolves, they don't really care much about the survival of their packmates and might do them nasty tricks, if necessary, to ensure their own survival and thus the victory of their team. So why wouldn't wolves actually accuse those they believe to be their fellows just to look more innocent? Suspecting someone is not the same as voting someone and voting someone is not the same as getting someone lynched. Now why I find this statement slightly suspicious and not just wrong from my point of view is that Nogrod is a guy who tends to be open and even aggressive when it comes to suspicions and usually has some opinion on the first Day - like he did now. So wouldn't this comment be a nice way of moving the spotlight from people like himself to less decided and outspoken players? Also it's notable how he starts with the fact that he's actually agreeing with Legate here. Thus his opinion doesn't stand out and it creates more pressure. Nice work.

That and the totally perplexing posts from toDay are all that I find suspicious about him. Otherwise he seems neutral or innocentish.

2)

Originally Posted by TM

Btw, you know what just came to my mind?
After all the twists and turns last WW I think we might be seeing something similar here as well.
I mean, after all the wolves don't do anything, nor do the gifteds.
My humble theory is that we were all made innocents (that somehow makes it much harder to see any wolvishness in one's playing style) and that the roles really will only be PMed later before the first Day begins.
Don't know if Volo is capable of such evil deeds, but it seems to be an interesting idea...

I think that looks a bit like a wolf-Miggy trying to appear innocent... because if such a theory had genuinely crossed his mind, he'd have to be innocent so by posting this he kind of shouts "I'm innocent!", which is something I find a little suspicious.

But that's really all I have against him.

~*~

So I'm really torn. Neither of these guys sends me innocentish vibes. They're both slightly suspicious. I would say I find Nogrod more suspicious than The Might, but I'm vaguely afraid it's just because TM has posted so little that he has not had the chance to look suspicious. I can hardly make any decision before I hear a lot more of him. I don't really know... I could basically vote TM just to keep Nogrod in the game if I have no real evidence of his guilt... I mean, I'd rather play the future days with someone of Nogrod's verbiosity level, not TM's, especially as two loudmouths have already died in this game. I claim it will be a disaster if only silent people make it to the finals... Hmph... and the fact that I have a 50% chance of getting this right really doesn't comfort me... because personally I have the bad feeling that with my luck and current wolf-hunting skills I'm going to choose the wrong one and then it feels even more annoying... Argh. It's really somewhat disturbing to know that one of the two has to be a wolf, if you have no clear idea which one. I'm very glad I don't have to choose now... Let's hope I get a lot of responses and comments from both of my fellow trialists before I have to make the fatal choice...

[Nogrod]

We just checked our last night's (rl) posting together and ended up playing this game live together in front of the computer. Sadly there's no audio recording of it to share with you... We should definitively stop reading these threads together when a game is on...

But where are you the Might? You said on Day 0.0 that you didn't like my playing style. I must return that compliment to you now in earnest. Are you playing or are you not?

I also said that I don't think it a valid argument to vote for someone if you dislike his playing style but I'm about to act against my word toDay if you don't appear with some thoughts to share.

In this case I might also say that my vote would not come from pure annoyance with a style of playing but also because of not playing at all.

Okay. I'm optimistic still and I do hope to hear from you so that I can forget what I just wrote. Throwing a dice is no method of reasoning out who is a wolf. We need things said to do that.


Which brings me to Lommy then...

Well, well. I'm not sure what to say right now. I thought initially that Aganzir's points against Lommy weren't too good - and I'm tending to believe that way still. But there's something in her posting toDay that I'm not too relaxed with. Somehow she's over-careful with her standing within this trio even if she posts a lot and also says a lot. It kind of feels she is watching very carefully the balance of the mood and what tm might say when / if he finally comes around. She kind of feels like ready to leap on either direction whichever will suit her better. Now that is not an actual argument against anyone. Many of us try to survive even we we're just plain ordos but I felt I needed to point to that.

And I naturally disagree with your points on me as they are just false or plain far-fetched or insignificant. The problem I have with them is not their content but the fact that you felt a need to voice a host of them. Yes, I can return your point about people possibly throwing things out to see how others react. That's perfectly legitimate and I tend to do that myself as well. But somehow, looking at the context here they seem somewhat fishy or should I say retaliatory (after I made one remark why someone could see Lommy as a wolf). I'd say answering an isolated suggestion of wolvishness with a host of poor arguments that try to paint the other black is jumpy indeed. It doesn't look like an innocent answering (or ignoring) an accusation but as a wolf trying to lead the discussion away from her.

And talking about jumpiness... you saw it fit to answer some suspicions laid on you in a different trial altogether but why? That wasn't so pressing as tm is nowhere to be seen and I think I had already dissed them.

Alright. I seem not to be concentrating on making friends here in this trial but the duty of us is to challenge if we wish to dig those wolves out from their hiding. They must be challenged, they must be forced to react to things. By reactions one can incriminate oneself or make oneself look better.

I know one of you is not a wolf so pardon my suspicions. I need you both to tell me which one of you is.