Microphones in Middle-earth...the BBC Lord of the Rings

[davem]

Originally Posted by Estelyn Telcontar

For me, hearing Tolkien's own words so faithfully reproduced is an important aspect.

As I've said, I think this is why the series captures the spirit of the book so well. And I think its easy to underestimate what was involved in adapting the work for this reason. You can get the idea that because so much was taken from the book that the adaptors didn't have to do very much. From what I've read/heard about producing this adaptation it was far from easy & there were a number of difficult choices to make. I've mentioned that Brian originally included the encounter with Gildor & omitted the Farmer Maggot scenes, but then changed his mind because he felt that that would work better & was more important.

One thing I wonder about is why the BBC originally went for 26 half-hour episodes, rather than 13 one hour episodes. After all they were pretty quick to edit it into 13 episodes for rebroadcast. I also wonder if Brian & Michael Bakewell would have taken a different approach if they'd been commissioned to do it as 13 hour long episodes in the first place - certainly they'd have needed fewer cliff-hangers ...

[Brian Sibley]

Originally Posted by davem

One thing I wonder about is why the BBC originally went for 26 half-hour episodes, rather than 13 one hour episodes. After all they were pretty quick to edit it into 13 episodes for rebroadcast. I also wonder if Brian & Michael Bakewell would have taken a different approach if they'd been commissioned to do it as 13 hour long episodes in the first place - certainly they'd have needed fewer cliff-hangers ...

The series was originally commissioned for what was a regular 30-minute drama slot. The success prompted the BBC to up-grade to the other regular slot which ran for 60 minutes. I would have certainly approached the division of the material quite differently had it been for hour-long episodes and the cliff-hangers' (many of them phoney or contrived) are now I think a blemish on the 60-minute versions.

Not that it matters after all these years, but the producer found my obsessive attitude towards the material during recording an utter trial (I was almost as defensive of Tolkien's text as Tolkien would have been!) and, as a result, I was not consulted about the amalgamation of the episodes - which I assume was done by the producer with, possibly, the assistance of Michael Bakewell.

This was ironic since I was commissioned to create the original 26 episode structure and was given credit for that work in addition to that for the episodes I dramatised, but the structuring of the 13 hour repeat was carried out without my involvement! The dramatisation as it was originally intended to be heard can, in fact, no longer be heard!!

Meanwhile, my article on the series The Ring Goes Ever On has now got its illustrations back and will be expanded as soon as I have time.

[ArathornJax]

Well, Frodo made it to Crickhollow. I realized how the script was adapted by eliminating the scene with the Elves in Woody End and transitioning after the appearance of the Black Rider the 1st time, to the short-cut and then ending up at Farmer's Maggot. This for me made more sense and I much prefer this adaptation to the one on the movie.

In both versions I miss the running in with the Elves and the conversation that occurs since Gildor sends out messengers that have to run into Aragorn/Dunedain, Elrond at Rivendell. But one cannot have everything one wants.

One of the things that I noticed was the difference between Khamal's voice at Bag End and the Witch King's voice. The voice of Khamal is more along the lines of what I imagine the Black Riders voice to be, whereas the Witch King sounds normal to me. I'd be interested to hear if that was a conscience choice or was it just the way it came out? What do others think of this difference?

Again, I love the use of the UT with the Hunt for the Ring with the Nazgul finding Grima. I also loved in this section today the actor's voice who did Farmer Maggot. I could picture Farmer Maggot in my mind's eye as I listened to him.

Sure made the drive home go by with far more enjoyment! Not sure how my local PBS radio station will like it though as I'll be listening to the adaptation while their drive is going on (I donate at a certain point each year so it won't take away a donation).

[davem]

Originally Posted by Brian Sibley

Meanwhile, my article on the series The Ring Goes Ever On has now got its illustrations back and will be expanded as soon as I have time.

Thanks so much for reinstating the pictures - I especially love the little one from RT about the first episode: seeing that instantly transports me back to March 1981.

Thanks for the link here to the Downs too

[Estelyn Telcontar]

I have a question on pronunciation - I noticed that Sméagol and Déagol were spoken as "Smeegol" and "Deegol". I was under the impression that the vowels are separated into two syllables, as in the movie - Sme-a-gol, De-a-gol. As I read that Christopher Tolkien had given guidelines for pronunciation, which is correct?

As to Peter Woodthorpe's Gollum voice - it's perfect! I love the way he emphasizes the "g" with a swallowing sound when it's at the beginning of a word.

[Brian Sibley]

Originally Posted by Estelyn Telcontar

I have a question on pronunciation - I noticed that Sméagol and Déagol were spoken as "Smeegol" and "Deegol". I was under the impression that the vowels are separated into two syllables, as in the movie - Sme-a-gol, De-a-gol. As I read that Christopher Tolkien had given guidelines for pronunciation, which is correct?

As to Peter Woodthorpe's Gollum voice - it's perfect! I love the way he emphasizes the "g" with a swallowing sound when it's at the beginning of a word.

Not sure which is 'correct'; certainly, we followed Christopher Tolkien's pronunciation at the time...

Yes, Woodthorpe is a marvel! I think one or two members of the cast were seriously worried about being upstaged (!), but he fully embodied Gollum and, despite Andy Serkis' remarkable film performance, Woodthorpe's voice is still the one I hear when I read the book...

[davem]

Originally Posted by Brian Sibley

Not sure which is 'correct'; certainly, we followed Christopher Tolkien's pronunciation at the time...
.

Back on 5th March 1981 (as Brian must remember) there was a bit of an event to launch the series at the Church House Bookshop. I've heard a recording, with Brian, Michael Bakewell, Penny Leicester, Peter Woodthorpe (who did a fantastic live performance of Gollum), David Collings, Stephen Oliver - & I think Raynor Unwin & Eric Fraser were also present....

Anyway, at the event Brian played the first few minutes of the tape Christopher recorded as a pronunciation guide, & Christopher points out there that the correct pronunciation is the one used in the series (& by Tolkien himself) - ie 'Smeegol' & 'Deegol' as opposed to 'Smay-a-gol' & 'Day-a-gol'.

[Brian Sibley]

Originally Posted by davem

Back on 5th March 1981 (as Brian must remember)....

Er... just!

Originally Posted by davem

Anyway, at the event Brian played the first few minutes of the tape Christopher recorded as a pronunciation guide, & Christopher points out there that the correct pronunciation is the one used in the series (& by Tolkien himself) - ie 'Smeegol' & 'Deegol' as opposed to 'Smay-a-gol' & 'Day-a-gol'.

Phew! That's a relief!

[Essex]

Originally Posted by Brian Sibley

and, despite Andy Serkis' remarkable film performance, Woodthorpe's voice is still the one I hear when I read the book...

And for me as well - you wouldn't believe the trouble I had trying to copy this accent when reading the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings out to my son during bed times over the past year or so. And he loves listening to the radio adaptations in the car too.

Just a couple of questions if I may Brian? (and apologies if they've been asked before - i haven't read through all the posts fully)

I used to have the original 13 cassette version until someone 'borrowed' it! So I went out and got the updated CD version you mentioned earlier on in the thread. Did you have any concerns on having Frodo narrate the bookends to each part of the trilogy in the new version, i.e. 'giving away' the point that Frodo survived? Or do you think, becasue of the mass exposure lotr now has across all media that most people would know he survived anyway?

One silly thing, I usually have the music cd from the new collection on the car - was there a reason why 'In Western Lands beneath the Sun' is earlier on in the list when the rest are in chronological order? Sorry for such a silly question - it is a beautiful song - I was seriosuly hoping for SOMETHING like this to be in the films - Sam's hopelesness - feeling utterly defeated as he can't find Frodo - then singing this beautiful song - it brings a tear to my eye when both reading the book or listening to your adaption.

Last thing (for now!) - I think the way Robert Stephens changes his voice from 'yokel' Strider to more 'kingly' aragorn as we travel with him from weathertop to rivendell and beyond was a marvel. your idea or Robert's? PS - One of the biggest regrets of my life was not seeing Mr Stephens in King Lear before he died a few years ago- hang on I've just read his biog - he died 12 years ago. - I can't believe it!

[Brian Sibley]

Originally Posted by Essex

Just a couple of questions if I may, Brian...

I used to have the original 13 cassette version until someone 'borrowed' it! So I went out and got the updated CD version you mentioned earlier on in the thread. Did you have any concerns on having Frodo narrate the bookends to each part of the trilogy in the new version, i.e. 'giving away' the point that Frodo survived? Or do you think, becasue of the mass exposure lotr now has across all media that most people would know he survived anyway?

Well, the second part of your question pretty much sums it up....

We deliberately chose NOT to use Frodo as narrator when the dramatisation was written, for the very reason you mention. And, of course, he couldn't narrate to the end of the story, since he leaves BEFORE the end! (Which is why the 'new' version only has a prologue and no epilogue to TROTK.)

We did consider using Sam, but felt that would reduce the tension and - despite the arguments of one reviewer who said we SHOULD have used him - it would have been difficult for Sam to narrate the events in which he was not involved...

By the time we did the 'new' version, I thought - because of the films - that it no longer mattered quite as much and it enabled me to create a 'story-so-far' introduction so that TTT and TROTK could be sold and listened to as stand-alone recordings...

Originally Posted by Essex

One silly thing, I usually have the music cd from the new collection on the car - was there a reason why 'In Western Lands beneath the Sun' is earlier on in the list when the rest are in chronological order? Sorry for such a silly question - it is a beautiful song - I was seriosuly hoping for SOMETHING like this to be in the films - Sam's hopelesness - feeling utterly defeated as he can't find Frodo - then singing this beautiful song - it brings a tear to my eye when both reading the book or listening to your adaption.

Not silly, but I honestly don't know why Stephen Oliver made that decision - unless it was dictated by the length and number of tracks that would fit on the original LP... We ought to have fixed that on the CD...

Originally Posted by Essex

Last thing (for now!) - I think the way Robert Stephens changes his voice from 'yokel' Strider to more 'kingly' aragorn as we travel with him from weathertop to rivendell and beyond was a marvel. your idea or Robert's? PS - One of the biggest regrets of my life was not seeing Mr Stephens in King Lear before he died a few years ago- hang on I've just read his biog - he died 12 years ago. - I can't believe it!

I think this was down to an inspired combination of Robert's performance and Jane Morgan's direction.

[Brian Sibley]

Originally Posted by davem

Thanks so much for reinstating the pictures - I especially love the little one from RT about the first episode: seeing that instantly transports me back to March 1981.

As you probably know, Eric Fraser drew 26 little head-pieces for the 'Radio Times' billings during the run of the series, although a couple never appeared due to industrial action which meant that the magazine for those weeks appeared only in a very basic, unillustrated, 'emergency' format.

One or two these pictures (which have something in common with Fraser's LOTR decorations for the Folio Society's 'Hobbit' and 'Rings') were used on/in the cassette/cd packaging for a while, but are largely unknown; and - in the case of the ones never printed - unseen!

Originally Posted by davem

Thanks for the link here to the Downs too

My pleasure. I am really enjoying reliving that journey of so long ago... Just hope my presence on the forum doesn't inhibit free-speech! Believe me, after 27 years, I am beyond taking offence!

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Originally Posted by Brian Sibley

Just hope my presence on the forum doesn't inhibit free-speech!

Not at all! Actually, I think it may serve as an incentive to really dig into this discussion. After all, it gives us a wonderful "getting-to-know-an-insider" feeling...