The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > The Books
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-29-2008, 09:01 PM   #1
Alfirin
Shade of Carn Dûm
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 435
Alfirin has been trapped in the Barrow!
I think part of the reason for the stifness in Aragorn's case is that as a result of being raised in Rivendell he was probably raised in the manner of an elf child and so aquired a very elvish way of behaving. Had Elrond not extended his protect and had Aragon been raised among the rangers, he might have turned out as boisterous and lusty as Boromir. As for Faramir, I think the constant need for his father's approval is what led to his overly formal way, he was too afraid to trangress to be at ease.
Alfirin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2008, 07:39 AM   #2
Elmo
Pittodrie Poltergeist
 
Elmo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: trying to find that warm and winding lane again
Posts: 633
Elmo has just left Hobbiton.
It could be construed as irony that the person with the least Numenorean blood Boromir, acted the most like the Numenoreans described by Erendis unlike say Farimir or Aragorn where their Numenoreaness was apparently pure.
__________________
As Beren looked into her eyes within the shadows of her hair,
The trembling starlight of the skies he saw there mirrored shimmering.
Elmo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2008, 12:22 PM   #3
Ghazi
Haunting Spirit
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 57
Ghazi has just left Hobbiton.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elmo View Post
It could be construed as irony that the person with the least Numenorean blood Boromir, acted the most like the Numenoreans described by Erendis unlike say Farimir or Aragorn where their Numenoreaness was apparently pure.
Numenoreans were divided into 2 groups soon after the events described in "Aldarion and Erendis." Aragorn and Faramir typify the Faithful. I think Boromir reminds me of Aldarion, not evil, but more inclined toward that path.
Ghazi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2008, 02:14 PM   #4
Gordis
Shade of Carn Dûm
 
Gordis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Minas Morgul
Posts: 431
Gordis is a guest of Tom Bombadil.
Quote:
It could be construed as irony that the person with the least Numenorean blood Boromir, acted the most like the Numenoreans described by Erendis unlike say Farimir or Aragorn where their Numenoreaness was apparently pure.
I like Alfirin's answer to that (see above)

Basically both Aragorn and Faramir were Gandalf's pupils, the former, in addition, was brought up among Elves. I would say Aragorn was rather "atypical" Numenorean. Denethor and Boromir anf even Faramir were the typical ones - only, contrary to Tar-Aldarion, brought up in times of war and peril.

Of course, even among Numenoreans of Numenor there were several varieties:

I. Wise, peaceful, bookish lore-masters: Vardamir Nolimon, Tar-Elendil (sire of the Lords of Andunie), Aldarion's father Tar-Meneldur, Tar-Minastir, and the last of them - Tar-Palantir.

II. Proud, ruthless king-warrior type soon became predominating : Tar-Aldarion, then a female variety of it: Tar-Ancalime and likely Tar-Telperien, then most certainly Tar-Ciryatan (who even constrained his father to retire early), Tar-Atanamir (like his father proud and greedy of wealth), Tar-Calmacil, Ar-Adûnakhôr, Ar-Gimilzôr and Ar-Pharazôn.

III. And with time there appeared a third type - irresponsible lazy-bones, mostly occupied with pursuit of their little personal hobbies.
I think Tar-Telemmaitë (the mithril-lover) was the first one of those and his daugther Tar-Vanimeldë was the finest example of this attitude: "She gave little heed to ruling, loving rather music and dance; and the power was wielded by her husband Herucalmo" (this one of the 2st type, I bet). Some later Kings that left very little line in the Annales may have been of this ilk as well.

And - an interesting thing- in the history of Gondor we see these three types all over again.
Elendil (I type), Isildur (II), Anarion (I-?) Meneldil (II), Tarannon Falastur (II). Hyarmendacil I (II). Atanatar II Alcarin ‘the Glorious' was the first of the lazy-bones (III), Narmacil I (III). Minalcar-Rómendacil, a great king and politician, was maybe of the I type, not the II, as he used political measures in preference to force. And Eärnur the last King was clearly of the II type.

Maybe type I and II go back to Elrond and Elros respectively (of the latter we unfortunately know little). Yet I guess, unlike Elrond, he was of the second type - a great proud ruler, who wanted power and glory here and now, who forsook immortality for the crown and lordship. His brother was content to become a herald of Gil-Galad, but Elros wanted more.

Of course, Faramir was of the first variety and Boromir of the second. Denethor is a more difficult case. I have a suspicion that born in the first variety, more alike to Faramir, he had schooled himself to act like he was of the second. That may have brought an additional mental strain on him throughout his life. But Denethor believed that in times of war the second type was more needed.

As for Aragorn, he is so "Elvish" in his ways that I really fail to classify him. Maybe he was like Denethor - the first variety guy, but quite modified. Maybe he was of the second variety, with its drawbacks softened by the Elvish schooling.

Last edited by Gordis; 03-25-2008 at 02:21 PM.
Gordis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2008, 05:39 PM   #5
Eönwë
Flame Imperishable
 
Eönwë's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Right here
Posts: 3,928
Eönwë is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.Eönwë is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.Eönwë is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.
Well personally, I love the Unfinished Tales, because they tell you all the stuff you alwyays wanted to know, except the really mysterious stuff (like Tom Bombadil).

And the Numenor bits show that however adavanced you are you still have problems. And that you can still be turned evil (with the right persuasion, or if you happen to have an evil demi-god you captured in prison and then make him your advisor).
The only criticism I can give about the Numenor parts is that though don't show enough of Valandil (The first of the faithful). He is more important (really) than many of the kings.
__________________
Welcome to the Barrow Do-owns Forum / Such a lovely place

Last edited by Eönwë; 04-12-2008 at 05:39 PM. Reason: F.u.l.l. s.t.o.p.s.
Eönwë is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2008, 01:38 PM   #6
Eönwë
Flame Imperishable
 
Eönwë's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Right here
Posts: 3,928
Eönwë is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.Eönwë is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.Eönwë is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.
Also there is a bit which explains that the dwarves helped save Middle-Earth much more than it states in the book, and were almost as important as the others infighting off the evil (except that their battles were much further in the North)
__________________
Welcome to the Barrow Do-owns Forum / Such a lovely place

Last edited by Eönwë; 04-21-2008 at 01:39 PM. Reason: grammar
Eönwë is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:30 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.