Microphones in Middle-earth...the BBC Lord of the Rings

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Brian Sibley

Anyway, on the subject of Frodo's absence: this is one of the effects of the re-editing of the series from 26 half-hours to 13 one hours. I wasn't involved in or consulted about this process, but I imagine that a couple of Frodo scenes would have been shifted from one half hour to the next so that the scenes could run longer in the hour-format.

I really wish it were possible for people to listen in the original format, but alas...

That is interesting - since side ends so often correspond with a bit of a cliff hanger I assumend that only the joins were amended. One thing I meant to ask was if you always knew that the series recordings would to the public sold or if this is a happy byproduct of BBC enterprises. I remember coveting the music casette and my mother claiming nothing had taking her so much trouble as obtaining it for me for Christmas. I don't remember the full recording being advertised then (I heard the 13 episode version so I suppose this was 82).

Much as I love the music recording, I do like the way the actors do their own songs in the actual dramatisation. Treebeard and Sam are so well cast but both actors sing their songs very well - were you looking specifically for actors who could sing or would you have dubbed in singers had it been necessary?

[Brian Sibley]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

That is interesting - since side ends so often correspond with a bit of a cliff hanger I assumend that only the joins were amended. One thing I meant to ask was if you always knew that the series recordings would to the public sold or if this is a happy byproduct of BBC enterprises.

It was never envisaged that the series would be sold commercially, that was a by-product of its success.

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

I remember coveting the music casette and my mother claiming nothing had taking her so much trouble as obtaining it for me for Christmas. I don't remember the full recording being advertised then (I heard the 13 episode version so I suppose this was 82).

It was also available as an LP. Stephen Oliver didn't want to use the actors' versions because they weren't good enough singers (a mistake in my opinion) so the disc was recorded later using professional singers (like Oz Clark) and with much of the incidental music extended, such as the Shadowfax theme. The boy soprano's voice had broken in the interim, so his brother sang those songs instead.

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

Much as I love the music recording, I do like the way the actors do their own songs in the actual dramatisation. Treebeard and Sam are so well cast but both actors sing their songs very well - were you looking specifically for actors who could sing or would you have dubbed in singers had it been necessary?

I agree about the actor's performances of the songs. But, yes, we were aware that some of the characters would have to sing and the fact that they could was a bonus. I doubt they would ever have been dubbed - Ian Holm couldn't sing, for example, so the 'Man in the Moon' song was spoken instead.

[Mithalwen]

Ah so I wasn't hallucinating when I thought that the singer was sometimes listed as Jeremy Vine. Matthew Vine is now quite well known as a tenor but I assume Jeremy isn't THAT Jeremy Vine.. though I suppose he would be the right age... !

Well I suppose composers want different things from a performance but at least the actors voices were kept for the broadcasts. Although Oz Clark sings Sam's songs without too much embellishment, the fact that it is clearly Bill Nighy in the broadcast makes them so much more powerful emotionally and of course is far more natural.

[Brian Sibley]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

Ah so I wasn't hallucinating when I thought that the singer was sometimes listed as Jeremy Vine. Matthew Vine is now quite well known as a tenor but I assume Jeremy isn't THAT Jeremy Vine.. though I suppose he would be the right age... !

Actually he was - or is - THAT Jeremy Vine!! The very same...

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

Well I suppose composers want different things from a performance but at least the actors voices were kept for the broadcasts. Although Oz Clark sings Sam's songs without too much embellishment, the fact that it is clearly Bill Nighy in the broadcast makes them so much more powerful emotionally and of course is far more natural.

Clark sang on the broadcasts - performing the extended lay of Theoden and the Ride of the Rohirrim. His recording of Sam's songs was, as I say, made later.

I think Stephen was conscious of creating a, literal, 'record' of his compositions and so wanted them to be performed 'professionally' for posterity. Bill was far more emotional and involved to my mind and I always thought people would rather have had the original cast. However, at least the recording allowed us to have longer versions of the various themes than were ever heard in the series.

[Mithalwen]

I have been pondering that for years - he cropped up in the Diocesan newsletter
years ago for some reason - maybe involved in Christian Aid - so it didn't seem beyond the bounds of possibility that he might have been a chorister. But it was never mentioned in any bigraphical articles I read so I more or less gave up the notion.

Wow...

[Mithalwen]

Before the discussion moves on without me tomorrow, there are a couple of things I would like to add. Firstly that while Treebeard's first song is part of the plot, his second "When spring unfolds the beechen leaf" gives a hint of an unexplored vista as far as the adaptation is concerned. Very clever to please the book devotees by acknowledging the Entwives without slowing the action by talking about them. The hobbit / treebeard scenes also give great proof of what can be done with the voice alone. I don't know whether any "magic" was worked but it is just so clear that Treebeard is vastly older and bigger than the hobbits - who sound much more boyish by comparison (whereas their voices sound merely young with the other hobbits).

To go back to the death and funeral of Boromir, I don't want to start an argument but given that Tolkien was both a devout Catholic and extremely proud of his Viking heritage (ref Donald Swann's intro to "The Road goes ever on" we should not be suprised that it is possible to identify elements of both.

Boromir has the opportunity to make a "good death", he confesses and asks for forgiveness - and is reassured by Aragorn. I believe the Catholic church prefers burial to other methods of disposal of bodies but the English are a seafaring nation and sea burial has often been a necessity and is still a choice and perfectly acceptable to the Anglican church (one of the designated sea burial grounds is off the Isle Wight and you can see them leave, robed vicar and all, from our local jetty). Many others have their ashes scattered on the water so I would contest that it is not part of the Christian tradition. However Boromir's funeral is clearly Viking.

Much of Tolkiens creation can be seen as an attempt to reconcile his Catholic beliefs with his personal and professional interest in Norse culture and mythology. Aspects of both can be found; those with a particular interest will pick up o their side more, as someone at Oxonmoot 06 said that the Catholics saw hints of the final victory, pagans the long defeat. Neither side is going to get a knockout blow and trying for a points victory can be tiresome for the disinterested (nb I use disinterested NOT uninterested).

Before I digress totally in to something that belongs in books, I do think the manner of Boromir's death and funeral is significant because we will have the later contrasts of Theoden and Denethor's. The latter is specifically described as heathen in the books, whereas the former is another semi-Viking style since the interment in a barrow is not so far from a ship burial.

Boromir is also in his own way "taking ship" and passing into the west. The sea is so important to the stories of ME and to Tolkien (I think I have a thread coming on) that this can not be without significance. Think of Aragorn's words "Boromir has taken his road" a road may be on sea as well as land (cf the Straight Road).
The elements also have significance I think - dwarves lay their dead in stone, the orcs are consigned to ashes, elves go west .. not unfitting that one of good Numenorean blood is returned to the sea.

Finally the funeral boat is a practical solution. There are several references to disposing differently of friend and foe in the books and one in this episode - the burning of the orcs. There is the strong and recognisable desire to give a comrade a "decent" if not Christian ) burial. This was not possible so they commend him to the water - a routine practice til recently for those who died at sea too far from land.

Ramble over...

[Brian Sibley]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

Before the discussion moves on without me tomorrow, there are a couple of things I would like to add. Firstly that while Treebeard's first song is part of the plot, his second "When spring unfolds the beechen leaf" gives a hint of an unexplored vista as far as the adaptation is concerned. Very clever to please the book devotees by acknowledging the Entwives without slowing the action by talking about them. The hobbit / treebeard scenes also give great proof of what can be done with the voice alone. I don't know whether any "magic" was worked but it is just so clear that Treebeard is vastly older and bigger than the hobbits - who sound much more boyish by comparison (whereas their voices sound merely young with the other hobbits).

I'm not sure than Stephen Thorne's voice was treated in any way as Treebeard: he has a deep, mellifluous voice and I had first worked with Stephen in BBC Schools Radio where he appeared in various scripts of mine either as Jesus or the Voice of God! I later requested for him to play Aslan in my radio dramatisations of the Narnian Chronicles (a role he had already voiced in the animated version of TLTW&TW); he also played Chrysophylax Dives in the 'Farmer Giles of Ham' epidsodes of my Tales of the Perilous Realm.

What I do remember was that he was swathed around the neck with garlands of gash recording tape, so that he rustled whenever he moved and spoke!!