Character Analysis Thread

[ArathornJax]

I brought it up so just to discuss some differences between Faramir and Boromir and their father for that matter, since there was a comment that is what the discussion is focused on. I had expected more of a discussion along the lines of what is found in Appendix A. For me, Boromir is less Numenorean and more traditional man, as expressed better by Appendix A. He loves war and battle, is strong and fearless, takes no wife like King Earnur (whom he is compared to), an relishes the non-tranditional Numenorean interests of battle and arms. Boromir has little interest in the tranditional Numenorean interests of lore (except in ancient or former battles) and music, while not possessing the foresight and seeing into the hearts of men like Faramir and his father.
Faramir is the opposite and loves music and lore, is equally bold and daring when the situation calls for it, but not just for glory's sake. Faramir could "read the hearts of men as shrewdly as his father, but what he saw did not lead him to scorn others but to pity what he saw" in them. Faramir in many ways reminds me of Aragorn.

Appendix A makes it very clear that both are Denethor's son because it states that Boromir was like his father in face and pride, but in nothing else. Faramir was like his father in both looks and in mind.

So I have to believe that genetically Boromir received less Numenorean traits then his father had, or that his younger brother received. That is not a slight to him, but for me it is a fact of who Boromir is. It helps us to understand who he is, and why he does what he does. I would also say that his environment had a lot probably to do with each son as well as parental expectations.

In the end Boromir was all warrior and is very prideful like his father. It is his pride/ego that lead him to being tempted by the ring, and his attempt to take it. Faramir though, because of his insight and his wisdom, is able to resist the very temptation of the ring outright. Faramir stated "Or I am wise enough to know that there are some perils from which a man must flee." For me then it is Faramir's Numenorean traits that allow him to not be tempted by the ring, while Boromir's ego and pride, that lead him to succumb to the influence/temptation of the ring. I don't think that lessens Boromir, for like his brother it is easy to see that Boromir was a great leader in battle. It does make for a nice compare and contrast on the two.

So, I think both brothers are fascinating for different reasons, one of them being how different they are, yet how much they loved and either supported or accepted each other. They are true brothers and family members who understood each other's stengths and weaknesses. Much like them, we may have our favorites, but I think it is important to remember that both play their role in the novel in helping it reach its conclusion.

[MatthewM]

Originally Posted by ArathornJax

I brought it up so just to discuss some differences between Faramir and Boromir and their father for that matter, since there was a comment that is what the discussion is focused on. I had expected more of a discussion along the lines of what is found in Appendix A. For me, Boromir is less Numenorean and more traditional man, as expressed better by Appendix A. He loves war and battle, is strong and fearless, takes no wife like King Earnur (whom he is compared to), an relishes the non-tranditional Numenorean interests of battle and arms. Boromir has little interest in the tranditional Numenorean interests of lore (except in ancient or former battles) and music, while not possessing the foresight and seeing into the hearts of men like Faramir and his father.

I disagree. Boromir was every bit Numenorean that Faramir and Denethor was. He was not like them in mind! That is one sole aspect that Tolkien cites. Boromir was of the same lineage of his sibling and his father. He was not more of a traditional man- he was 6'4", built like an ox, and the strongest man in Gondor! He was of "high Numenorean lineage" as Tolkien points in a letter located in the Bodleian Library in Oxford (p.229, The Lord of the Rings: A Reader’s Companion by Wayne G. Hammond and Christina Scull). A man from a simple background could not claim such a title. Fact is fact, Boromir was every bit of Numenorean that Faramir and Denethor was! He was unlike them in every aspect of mind (because he shared Denethor's pride)- that's IT!!!

Originally Posted by AJ

for like his brother it is easy to see that Boromir was a great leader in battle. It does make for a nice compare and contrast on the two.

It is easy to see?! Of course it was, he was the Captain General! Boromir was ten times the warrior that Faramir was!!! Faramir did not even compare to Boromir in the realm of battle!

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by ArathornJax

I brought it up so just to discuss some differences between Faramir and Boromir and their father for that matter, since there was a comment that is what the discussion is focused on. I had expected more of a discussion along the lines of what is found in Appendix A. For me, Boromir is less Numenorean and more traditional man, as expressed better by Appendix A. He loves war and battle, is strong and fearless, takes no wife like King Earnur (whom he is compared to), an relishes the non-tranditional Numenorean interests of battle and arms. Boromir has little interest in the tranditional Numenorean interests of lore (except in ancient or former battles) and music, while not possessing the foresight and seeing into the hearts of men like Faramir and his father.
Faramir is the opposite and loves music and lore, is equally bold and daring when the situation calls for it, but not just for glory's sake. Faramir could "read the hearts of men as shrewdly as his father, but what he saw did not lead him to scorn others but to pity what he saw" in them. Faramir in many ways reminds me of Aragorn.

Appendix A makes it very clear that both are Denethor's son because it states that Boromir was like his father in face and pride, but in nothing else. Faramir was like his father in both looks and in mind.

So I have to believe that genetically Boromir received less Numenorean traits then his father had, or that his younger brother received. That is not a slight to him, but for me it is a fact of who Boromir is. It helps us to understand who he is, and why he does what he does. I would also say that his environment had a lot probably to do with each son as well as parental expectations.

In the end Boromir was all warrior and is very prideful like his father. It is his pride/ego that lead him to being tempted by the ring, and his attempt to take it. Faramir though, because of his insight and his wisdom, is able to resist the very temptation of the ring outright. Faramir stated "Or I am wise enough to know that there are some perils from which a man must flee." For me then it is Faramir's Numenorean traits that allow him to not be tempted by the ring, while Boromir's ego and pride, that lead him to succumb to the influence/temptation of the ring. I don't think that lessens Boromir, for like his brother it is easy to see that Boromir was a great leader in battle. It does make for a nice compare and contrast on the two.

So, I think both brothers are fascinating for different reasons, one of them being how different they are, yet how much they loved and either supported or accepted each other. They are true brothers and family members who understood each other's stengths and weaknesses. Much like them, we may have our favorites, but I think it is important to remember that both play their role in the novel in helping it reach its conclusion.

This is an interesting look at the Appendix, ArathornJax and I think a very fair analysis. Quite true that we all have our favourites.

It is interesting that it is pity and mercy which give Faramir strength rather than raw brawn--no wonder he welcomes Gandalf, which his father regretfully would or could not do, out of pride and fear that the Wizard would take the Steward's inheritance.

The comparison of Boromir with Earnur is very interesting, for in the Appendix we are told something about Earnur's nature as a leader.

Originally Posted by Appendix A

Earnur was a man like his father in valour, but not in wisdom. He was a man of strong body and hot mood; but he would take no wife, for his only pleasure was in fighting, or in the exercise of arms. His prowess was such that none in Gondor could stand against him in those weapon sports in which he delighted, seeming rather a champion than a captain or a king, .

Now, the Appendix is, I take it, written in the Narrator's Omniscience and we have little in the story proper of LotR to contrast and compare his (I assume 'he' is the correct gender) comments. Normally I suppose we assume that the Narrator is speaking with full authorial authority. Yet when Farmir speaks with Frodo and Sam, we have Faramir making a comment which the Appendix later supports. Here is Faramir's explanation to Sam and Frodo of the relations between the Rohirrim and the Gondorian peoples.

Originally Posted by Tolkien, The Window on the West

"Yet now, if the Rohirrim are grown in some ways more like to us, enhanced in arts and gentleness, we too have become more like to them, and scarce can claim any longer the title High. We are become Middle Men, of the Twilight, but with memory of other things. For as the Rohirrim do, we now love war and valour as things good in themselves, both a sport and an end; and though we still hold that a warrior should have more skills and knowledge than only the craft of weapons and slaying, we esteem a warrior, nonetheless, above men of other crafts. Such is the need of our days. So even was my brother, Boromir: a man of prowess, and for that he was accounted the best man in Gondor. And very valiant indeed he was: no heir of Minas Tirith has for long years been so hardy in toil, so onward into battle, or blown a mightier note on the Great Horn." Faramir sighed and fell silent for a while.

Quite intriguing, eh wot?

[MatthewM]

The extreme similarities between King Earnur and Boromir are well known.

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by MatthewM

The extreme similarities between King Earnur and Boromir are well known.

Just putting the comparison between Earnur and Boromir in the context of the brother's understanding of each other and of Numenorean values.

It was Eanur after all who put the kingdom into the constitutional crisis which led to the creation of the Ruling Stewardship.

It's really quite an interesting comparison because of the similarities to Tolkien's thoughts on ofermod and the right duty of a warrior in The Homecoming of Beorhtnoth. There's an old thread around here someowhere on the topic. Perhaps if I find it I can edit this with a link to that discussion.

EDIT: found it: Here's the link

Barrow Downs thread discussing "The Homecoming of Beorhtnoth". Some fab contributions by Squatter and davem in particular.