Dueling Wizards Werewolf II discussion thread - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

the phantom · 05-18-2008, 04:07 PM

I think it is indeed a good idea to allow gifteds who have been revealed to each other to communicate, and I also agree with Lommy that this should not be automatic but an ability granted by the Wizard. Hmm... I can think of some interesting things that could develop as a result of this.

Roa_Aoife · 05-18-2008, 07:56 PM

The reason that the EW and the GW scrying the same person results in a death rather than a reveal is because in the last game, the above scenario happened on Night One. LMP thought that the first day was WAAAAAY too early for everything to be over, and so scratched the whole plan, leaving one very confused and, well, boastful innocent who got lynched on the first day. In the discussion afterwards, it was agreed that this method of reveal was too problematic. So instead, the innocent scried by both wizards dies. Wizards can still determine each other's identity by scrying the other wizard, attacking them via wolf or hunter, getting them lynched, or having the seer dream of them. That's plenty right there.

I don't believe the GW should be able to protect his own gifted from the EW's scrying, and here's why: If a gifted loses his giftedness, he does NOT change sides. He's still a good guy, and the chances of him becoming a wolf on the following night are slim to none, since both wizard's scrying the same person will kill him, or the EW will simply take him out. However, if a wolf is scried, he immediately changes sides to the good team, and any and all information he knows goes to the good team as well. The EW is actually at greater risk from the wolves being scried than the GW is from losing gifted. To take away even more risk of that would be giving too much of an advantage to the good team.

Also, the wizards should have complete control of the communication for their respective teams. Information control is the greatest asset each wizard has for enacting strategies.

Now, I just want to check on the order of events for each night, so here's what I think:

1. Wizards scry and get that information
2. Ranger protects, Hunter hunts, and Seer dreams
3. Wolves attack

Obviously it won't happen that way, well, ever. But for the purposes of determining what happens when, I think it's important to lay this out. It's important that the wizard's know what's going to happen every night at the start, at least as far as their own team is concerned. That way each wizard can best utilize their own team to it's fullest extent. I believe the GW's biggest issue was the passing of information that crippled the good team the most.

mormegil · 05-18-2008, 10:02 PM

Any approximate on starting dates?

Gwathagor · 05-18-2008, 10:04 PM

Hey, um, this is going to make me really look stupid, but...what exactly do the ranger and hunter do?

Roa_Aoife · 05-18-2008, 10:46 PM

Don't worry about it, Gwath.

The ranger picks one person a night to protect. If the wolves attack that person, there is no kill.

The hunter also picks one person a night to hunt. If the wolves kill the hunter, that person dies also.

It should also be noted that the hunter has a long and proud history of killing the seer.

Gwathagor · 05-19-2008, 08:28 AM

Ah, thanks. I must have missed that day of class in Werewolf 101.

McCaber · 05-19-2008, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gwath

Well, if occupations are recommended, then I'll be a highwayman.

So my brother's a crook, eh? Awesome. My life just got a lot more exciting.

Nogrod · 05-20-2008, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mormegil

Any approximate on starting dates?

The approximate I have talked of earlier was May 30th to 31st - beginning with a Night phase. So that makes it something like ten days from now.

I'll be home late Sunday-evening and will start drawing things together in the beginning of next week. We have now something like 24 players. We'd do well with a couple more even if the game can be played fine with this number of players. But if you have someone in mind please call them to join. I will do some calling next week if the number of players has stayed the same as I get home from my trip.

I'll look at the family trees as well then.

I do agree with many here that the wizard's minions should need a license from their wizard to PM together. Also I see Roa's argument on the GW not being able to "scry-protect" her gifteds quite persuasive.

Keep on bringing up any issues that come to mind and commenting on those already discussed. I'll be working out the more detailed rules next week so until then all points will be considered.

Gwathagor · 05-20-2008, 05:29 PM

I eagerly await the formalized rules, when all shall be made clear and order created out of the chaos.

THE Ka · 05-20-2008, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Volo

Oukei, so in that case I'm his grandfather.

I thought you were a ca- I mean, a dog? Or has your sudden canine transformation reversed?

Anyways, I'm still rather confused. If Volo is Nogrod's grandfather, then Roa's children would be our aunts and uncle from before or now our cousins (or by hobbit standards, possibly)?
Though, I think Nogrod will be able to clear up his relation in another family tree. Hopefully.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Nice to see you The Ka to comfirm

Awh, well, I couldn't leave Aganzir sisterless.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roa

It should also be noted that the hunter has a long and proud history of killing the seer.

I'm actually rather curious how that is going to work out in this game, say, if the EW finds the seer before our hunter does, etc.

I'm going to have to agree with Roa on the abilities of the GW. It doesn't leave much unpredictibility to the game if either way a gifted or a wolf has a greater chance of automatically changing sides. We'd still lose wolves and gifteds, but the ordos would win with a greater advantage by majority in numbers alone. I know, they're "supposed" to win, but still... Think of the wolves too...

~Ka

Roa_Aoife · 05-20-2008, 06:37 PM

Okay, so if Rikae and I are sisters, and Nogrod is the bother of Lalaith and Nerwen, and Volo is their father, then the only family NOT connected to everyone else is Morm and Celuien and their children, Gwathagor and McCaber.

You might want to find a way to connect, there. Outsiders get lynched first.

Just looking at my corrected chart, it would be easiest if Morm or Celuien was related to Cailin.

Also, who here is still considered a child or teenager? If I'm going to be a school teacher, then I want to know who my students are.

Gwathagor · 05-20-2008, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

You might want to find a way to connect, there. Outsiders get lynched first.

Just looking at my corrected chart, it would be easiest if Morm or Celuien was related to Cailin.

Yeah, sounds like we'd better figure something out.

Diamond18 · 05-20-2008, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

Also, who here is still considered a child or teenager? If I'm going to be a school teacher, then I want to know who my students are.

I'm phantom's little sister. As in not yet old enough to have a boyfriend/husband/job. I think I'm a pre-teen.

Yeah, that sounds good.

So I guess you're my teacher and aunt.

This is one complicated family tree.

Aganzir · 05-21-2008, 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

Also, who here is still considered a child or teenager? If I'm going to be a school teacher, then I want to know who my students are.

I'm 15, or maybe a year or two younger. I attend your classes when I don't have any better things to do.

05-18-2008, 04:07 PM	#1
the phantom Beloved Shadow Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: The Stadium Posts: 5,971	I think it is indeed a good idea to allow gifteds who have been revealed to each other to communicate, and I also agree with Lommy that this should not be automatic but an ability granted by the Wizard. Hmm... I can think of some interesting things that could develop as a result of this. __________________ the phantom has posted. This thread is now important.

05-18-2008, 07:56 PM	#2
Roa_Aoife Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Someday, I'll rule all of it. Posts: 1,696	The reason that the EW and the GW scrying the same person results in a death rather than a reveal is because in the last game, the above scenario happened on Night One. LMP thought that the first day was WAAAAAY too early for everything to be over, and so scratched the whole plan, leaving one very confused and, well, boastful innocent who got lynched on the first day. In the discussion afterwards, it was agreed that this method of reveal was too problematic. So instead, the innocent scried by both wizards dies. Wizards can still determine each other's identity by scrying the other wizard, attacking them via wolf or hunter, getting them lynched, or having the seer dream of them. That's plenty right there. I don't believe the GW should be able to protect his own gifted from the EW's scrying, and here's why: If a gifted loses his giftedness, he does NOT change sides. He's still a good guy, and the chances of him becoming a wolf on the following night are slim to none, since both wizard's scrying the same person will kill him, or the EW will simply take him out. However, if a wolf is scried, he immediately changes sides to the good team, and any and all information he knows goes to the good team as well. The EW is actually at greater risk from the wolves being scried than the GW is from losing gifted. To take away even more risk of that would be giving too much of an advantage to the good team. Also, the wizards should have complete control of the communication for their respective teams. Information control is the greatest asset each wizard has for enacting strategies. Now, I just want to check on the order of events for each night, so here's what I think: 1. Wizards scry and get that information 2. Ranger protects, Hunter hunts, and Seer dreams 3. Wolves attack Obviously it won't happen that way, well, ever. But for the purposes of determining what happens when, I think it's important to lay this out. It's important that the wizard's know what's going to happen every night at the start, at least as far as their own team is concerned. That way each wizard can best utilize their own team to it's fullest extent. I believe the GW's biggest issue was the passing of information that crippled the good team the most. __________________ We can't all be Roas* when it comes to analysing...* -Lommy I didn't say you're evil, Roa, I said you're exasperating. -Nerwen

05-18-2008, 10:02 PM	#3
mormegil Maundering Mage Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 4,651	Any approximate on starting dates? __________________ “I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo. "So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.”

05-18-2008, 10:04 PM	#4
Gwathagor Shade with a Blade Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: A Rainy Night In Soho Posts: 2,512	Hey, um, this is going to make me really look stupid, but...what exactly do the ranger and hunter do? __________________ Stories and songs.

05-18-2008, 10:46 PM	#5
Roa_Aoife Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Someday, I'll rule all of it. Posts: 1,696	Don't worry about it, Gwath. The ranger picks one person a night to protect. If the wolves attack that person, there is no kill. The hunter also picks one person a night to hunt. If the wolves kill the hunter, that person dies also. It should also be noted that the hunter has a long and proud history of killing the seer. __________________ We can't all be Roas* when it comes to analysing...* -Lommy I didn't say you're evil, Roa, I said you're exasperating. -Nerwen

05-19-2008, 08:28 AM	#6
Gwathagor Shade with a Blade Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: A Rainy Night In Soho Posts: 2,512	Ah, thanks. I must have missed that day of class in Werewolf 101. __________________ Stories and songs.

05-20-2008, 05:29 PM	#9
Gwathagor Shade with a Blade Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: A Rainy Night In Soho Posts: 2,512	I eagerly await the formalized rules, when all shall be made clear and order created out of the chaos. __________________ Stories and songs.

05-20-2008, 06:37 PM	#11
Roa_Aoife Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Someday, I'll rule all of it. Posts: 1,696	Okay, so if Rikae and I are sisters, and Nogrod is the bother of Lalaith and Nerwen, and Volo is their father, then the only family NOT connected to everyone else is Morm and Celuien and their children, Gwathagor and McCaber. You might want to find a way to connect, there. Outsiders get lynched first. Just looking at my corrected chart, it would be easiest if Morm or Celuien was related to Cailin. Also, who here is still considered a child or teenager? If I'm going to be a school teacher, then I want to know who my students are. __________________ We can't all be Roas* when it comes to analysing...* -Lommy I didn't say you're evil, Roa, I said you're exasperating. -Nerwen Last edited by Roa_Aoife; 05-20-2008 at 06:44 PM.