Tol-in-Gaurhoth XLVII: Dueling Wizards Werewolf II

[the phantom]

Roa for tp
Lhuna for Mac
Nilp for McCaber
Gwath for Lal
morm for Brin
Sally for McCaber

McCaber- 2
tp- 1
Mac- 1
Lal- 1
Brin- 1

[Cailín]

Phantom, I often see your side of things and give you the benefit of the doubt, but you have about double the number of posts as the next highest. Why'd you lose your ability to post like a proper player?

I'm not sure who to vote for yet. Sally still looks dodgy to me; Diamond's just itching for me to choose her ( ) and I'm suspicious of Gwathagor and Brinniel.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Cailin

Phantom, I often see your side of things and give you the benefit of the doubt, but you have about double the number of posts as the next highest. Why'd you lose your ability to post like a proper player?

Heh heh... Actually that's pretty typical. Do you recall Fea's game? I had over 100 posts just on that thread. Mith kept track of posting counts. I found this one on one of the latter pages-

the phantom- 95
The Saucepan Man- 54
Mithalwen- 43
Diamond18- 35
Kath- 16

I have almost twice as many as SPM! That's quite an accomplishment if you ask me.

So really, this is pretty standard stuff from me.

Originally Posted by Lommy

probably tp, because he seems less innocent and is less reasonable

Maybe less innocent, but I have not been less reasonable. Her attack post was a series of misquotes and grasping. I've been rather reasonable I'm thinking.

[Kath]

... I have absolutely no idea where those intervening hours just went. This is the trouble with being home and having Guitar Hero again.

Anyway, I have to be up horribly early in order to sort out some placement stuff so it's voting time.

Now, from looking at some of yesterDay in depth and at least reading the rest of it I had Agan, Durelin, Lommy and Mac on my 'hmm' list. So I'll have a quick look at what they were up to toDay and then vote.

Agan - was a little confused about whether Volo had a dream. Actually, lack of knowledge about the rules makes me think innocent more as if she were a wolf (whether original or later turned) she'd probably have checked that out. Then again, she'd be EW side not GW, so might not look at GW side rules. Finds Brinn, Legate and Lommy suspicious. Do you know, the more I read from thus Day the more innocent I'm finding her. She has a very good, sensible post on page 9 that is making me feel far more secure about her. Picks up Greenie. I saw something suspicious in her earlier, the Volo typo thing. Looks at Lommy too, who has apparently suddenly started using RL knowledge to try and peg her. Suspicious? I wouldn't say so. Use anything you can to try and figure people out! But that post turned me round on Agan again, I don't know why, I think the tone of it put my back up.

Durelin - suspicion of Agan and Lommy, and particularly the way they interacted with each other. Finds the rule that says 'no dream'. Thinks Lommy planted suspicion of Agan ... possibly a good point, we'll see about that when I get to Lommy. Starts to build a case against Lommy. Doesn't like those who are currently flying under the radar, like Izzy and McCaber. Well, fair enough, but with so many people in the village if you aren't phantom, Roa or that noisy you're going to be considered under the radar anyway. I get not liking them for just posting in character, bugs me too. Mentions Izzy did everything Roa did but ended up voting for her ... fair point if it's true. Is still building that case against Lommy a little bit at a time.

Lommy - do you know, I've just rethought this. If Lommy were the EW or a wolf or, well, anything, I really don't think she'd be this ... not here. I'm going to take her off the list, for now at least.

Mac - thinks Nerwen's death was pointless, also doesn't get Kitanna's death. Some suspicion of Lhuna for having vague suspicions as well as suspecting Eonwe with silly reasoning. Gets all his questions of Lhuna answered and seems to give up on that idea, he seemed quite stumped by her rational explanation. Says the Nerwen bandwagon makes phantom look evil (but then so does everything) but argues himself out of this by saying phantom is unlikely to play as he is if he is the EW. Suspicion of Agan, for being too laid back. This game truly is impossible. Don't overreact and you're labelled as a careful wolf, overreact and you're labelled as a defensive wolf. Mildly useless list of who he suspects.

I'm not entirely done (still a whole flipping page to go! Can't you people talk less?) but I have to go. I've been at this too long already. So, I don't like Mac here. He tried to fight against Lhuna but when she gave him nothing he gave up and went after someone else. Everyone has gone after Agan. Is that because there's something there or is someone making her a very effective scapegoat? I can't make my mind up on her. I read one post and she strikes me as innocent, the very next post she looks suspicious. I don't think I could happily vote Durelin unless I'd looked at Lommy as the two of them seem rather closely linked. Therefore:

++MAC

[the phantom]

Roa for tp
Lhuna for Mac
Nilp for McCaber
Gwath for Lal
morm for Brin
Sally for McCaber
Cel for Cailin
Rikae for Legate
Shasta for Legate
Mac for Agan
Kath for Mac

McCaber- 2
Legate- 2
Mac- 2
tp- 1
Lal- 1
Brin- 1
Cailin- 1
Agan- 1

[the phantom]

Okay, here's where I stand on the leaders.

I don't want to lynch Legate. Like I said I've been flip-flopping on him in my mind, and right now I'm firmly seeing him as innocent. I think maybe I'm getting a feeling for him at last.

I don't want to lynch Mac either. In a couple of other games I've been able to get a decent read on him, so I don't feel the need to kill him to discover what he is.

McCaber- I don't have much of a feeling for him, so I'd prefer him above the other two leaders.

Agan might be the best choice. I'm inclined to trust Lommy's gut which I gather has been screaming "guilty" since the beginning. But I hate to lose the entertainment.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Agan might be the best choice. I'm inclined to trust Lommy's gut which I gather has been screaming "guilty" since the beginning. But I hate to lose the entertainment.

Inclined to trust Lommy?? Oh please this is what I mean when saying she uses RL knowledge wrong. Have you considered the possibility that's just what she wants you to do?

[Thinlómien]

Aaaaaaaaaarghhhhhhhhhh! Aganzir is making a futile and totally stupid case against me and then turning confident I'm a wolf or something like that and I don't really have time to answer her nonsense as Greenie had to post too and I have to start thinking who I'll vote! If I'm stilla live toMorrow there will be a proper self-defense, but for now I will sum it up as: Agan tries to interpret everything I say in a bad light and deliberatedly misrepresents me, which does not make me one little bit more trusting of her.

Now, as for who to vote, tp and Agan are the only ones who really stand out for me. There are also others I'm vahguely feeling bad about - Cailín, Lalaith, McCaber and Mac, but I'm very aware that apart from Cailín, these are mostly based on other people's suspicions. I've really had too little time to think toDay. I'm a bit at loss with the whole game aargh....


edit: xed with everybody after Kath

[Thinlómien]

Phantom Stop Trusting My Judgement On Agan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


EDIT: xed with those two

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Inclined to trust Lommy?? Oh please this is what I mean when saying she uses RL knowledge wrong. Have you considered the possibility that's just what she wants you to do?

Originally Posted by Thinlomien

Phantom Stop Trusting My Judgement On Agan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*amused* Children, play nice.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Aaaaaaaaaarghhhhhhhhhh! Aganzir is making a futile and totally stupid case against me and then turning confident I'm a wolf or something like that and I don't really have time to answer her nonsense as Greenie had to post too and I have to start thinking who I'll vote! If I'm stilla live toMorrow there will be a proper self-defense, but for now I will sum it up as: Agan tries to interpret everything I say in a bad light and deliberatedly misrepresents me, which does not make me one little bit more trusting of her.

Now, as for who to vote, tp and Agan are the only ones who really stand out for me. There are also others I'm vahguely feeling bad about - Cailín, Lalaith, McCaber and Mac, but I'm very aware that apart from Cailín, these are mostly based on other people's suspicions. I've really had too little time to think toDay. I'm a bit at loss with the whole game aargh....


edit: xed with everybody after Kath

Because I am confident you're a wolf! And if I'm wrong I deserve to be lynched on day 1 from now on and can even lend a hand and vote myself.

[McCaber]

Well, this is fun. Aside from the fact that I'm really not sure who to vote.

Originally Posted by tp

I'm up for Gwath, but only if we can shoot him past everyone.

Well, as that's only 3 votes right now, it's not that far away.

EDIT: crossed x3

[Celuien]

Hmm. After all of the reading and attempted thinking, I'm not really any closer to definite suspicions than I was at the beginning. I wish I had time for more thorough reasoning... call this a hunch, but I do have a vaguely bad feeling about Cailín - partly for this directed at Di:

But it looks to me like you're hiding in the open, and a bit eager to express how you don't really feel a part of the game -- i.e. have an evil role.

And I find Di unsuspicious. So...

++ Cailín

[Cailín]

Originally Posted by Celuien

Hmm. After all of the reading and attempted thinking, I'm not really any closer to definite suspicions than I was at the beginning. I wish I had time for more thorough reasoning... call this a hunch, but I do have a vaguely bad feeling about Cailín - partly for this directed at Di:

And I find Di unsuspicious. So...

++ Cailín

What a bizarre reason for a vote.

[Cailín]

Sorry, that post looks stupid because it's missing my original quotation.

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Lommy

As for Roa and phantom, I wasn't as foolish as some *coughMaccough* to skip their debate.

As others have stated, I more and more got the feeling of two innocents bashing it out until both are lynched. I'm only keeping Roa a little higher in my suspicions because - she's Roa!

The argument between you and Aganzir, however, looks very, very sinister to me. The last posts of you two confirm that to me. One of you two is evil... but who??

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Agan

Hope you're enjoying yourself phantom.

Oh, I am! Keep it up! It's making me all hot.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by tp

I'd much rather see a continuation of the Lommy versus Agan battle. Or it would also be fine to see Roa lynched since the EW might have given her "get TP lynched so we don't have to waste a kill/scry on him" instructions.

I think this quote by the phantom quite much summarises the Day. Phantom and Roa are quarreling, as are Lommy and Agan. I don't like the way personal arguements between pairs are drawing the village's (erm... I mean, at least my) attention. I must confess I still haven't got a clue of this game. I haven't been quite able to read anyone, nor do I have the time to do so now.

I'll try my best, anyway.

Izzy, McCaber, Celuien, Lalaith, morm: under the radar

Kath, Brinn, Rikae, Durelin: innocentish

the phantom: either frustrated ordo, wolf or EW (at the moment I'm most inclined to think the first..)

Roa: innocent?

Lommy, Cailín, Di, Sally: can't say.

Gwath: looming between suspicious and harmless.

Shasta: contributing more than usual, innocentish

Agan: I guess she, too, is but a little frustrated ordo, but I wouldn't be surprised to find her a wolf or even the EW..

Mac, Legate: I don't know what to make of either of these guys, either... Both could be just anything.

My apologies for the ones I forgot as there's bound to be those... I don't yet know who to vote but I have to do it very very soon because Lommy still feels the need to post.. Aieee! I think my toDay's vote will go to either some inactive submarine (McCaber, Izzie or morm?) or to someone whose death might reveal something (tp?).


EDIT: x-ed since Agan

[Durelin]

Lommy is freakin' me out. Okay, so is Aganzir, but Agan seems genuinely frustrated and not worried about showing it anymore, which makes me feel a little better about her. Of course, she has been getting much more pressure than Lommy...which I don't really understand, actually. Mostly it's been because of Lommy - she certainly started it all.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Oh now suddenly that there are other people to vote for me I'm a suspect again! By the way did you notice how Lommy grew nastier and more confident when people actually started to agree with her?

I agree with you here. Looking over the posts leading up to her vote for you, she says this:

Originally Posted by Lommy

I'd love to vote Agan and I know Brinn and Volo could do that too, but that really isn't much as tp already has 4 votes...

And then a little bit later:

Originally Posted by Lommy

Anyway, like I just said, I'd love to vote Agan. I'd also like to vote Kath because she has been rather unconstructive toDay, will probably slip under the radar, could have applied to be the EW and would be a good wolf pick for the EW. Sadly, I might have to choose someone else...

She's practically begging for others to go for Aganzir. And then there's the "she'd sell her soul to be the EW." Another toss in to make people worried.

And then seems to vote once it looks like Brinn and Volo are with her, and after Legate says this:

Originally Posted by Legate

If it were to choose between her and some of the other two named, even she would do... but then... I really don't know. At least at the beginning I thought her innocentish. Lately probably other people's observations, or suspicions of her, influenced me as well in some way.

Lommy's good. Of course I don't doubt Aganzir's skills, either. Which is partly why Lommy feels worse.

Edit: Crossed with a lot.

Edit: #2 Really a lot.

We do still have almost an hour, right? Geez, people posting like we're down to the wire already...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

So this was the "short while". Okay.

Originally Posted by Brinniel

I think I already answered this in that same post, but anyway... We look for a connection between wolves and the EW by lynching a wolf, then analysing reasons why an EW would scry that player and who that possibly could be. That's the best way I can think of doing it...other than by suspicious behaviour.

Ah, so that! Well, how inventive I thought you had something more special in mind. Of course then. All right.

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Why the evil team picked Kitanna is beyond me. I was thinking she'd be a good candidate to be added to the evil team last Night.

Why do you think so, if I may ask?

Originally Posted by Lhunardawen

That quoted post involving Leggie stands out because it gives me the strong feeling of you trying to get into someone's good side (by thanking him for agreeing with you and offering apologies for disagreeing with him).

Although this issue concerns me, I don't see it the way you do; I see the way you put it somewhat flawed. He was actually doing the opposite, or that was the outcome: he thanked me, but quite rudely attacked me after that - or that was my feeling. So not the effect you describe, quite the opposite, if I'm to speak for myself.
The fact that I took it rather in the offensive way does not mean he did not mean it the way you say, however, I think it's actually not like that and that he really did NOT mean it the way you say.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Legate feels off, and I get the feeling he is trying to appear that way, somehow. I don't think he would do that innocently.

What do you mean by that?

Originally Posted by Nilpaurion Felagund

Volo voted for Agan; suspected Legate, Greenie, Sally (mildly), tp (at first) Celuien, and Cailín; and defended tp and Agan (at first).

So morm, Agan, and Legate are probably innocent. (Or they are controlled by a very bold EW--or perhaps even one of them is! But I'll stick with what I said first.)

Do you think it would be so easy? Well, it may have something to it, but I won't put it as clear way as you do. "Inclined not to do so", the EW will be, but then, even if some of the Wolves were one of those named, he would not need to care that much. Although I appreciate the idea going this way, it's not bulletproof.

Originally Posted by THE Ka

I think we have games mixed up. I’m referring to when you were a mod of the gladiator-like game (where three of us at a time would compete, then the game would revert back to a normal ‘village’ setup), y’know, “Taliesin of Nothing”. I was a protector, and unfortunately a very obvious one not only to wolves, but others spotted as well.
Now, in the fellowship-setup, yes I was a very bad wizard, but I felt like mother theresa all the same and to everyone else (except maybe Nogrod).

Oh, okay then. Because A) my LAST game (and you said last) was really the Fellowship of Saruman, and B) the game with the arena, not only was before the Saruman game, but it was Volo's game. I only wrote two narrations for that - when I was already out of the game. All right, so that's nothing. Let's forget that.

Originally Posted by Durelin

Isabel's post bothers me. Completely useless while looking useful. Similar to Nilp, she talks about the village's situation as dire. She doesn't really say anything about anyone, but casts a general sort of suspicion over the "sillyness." All very boring and silly. I think she's a much better submarine than McCaber, and he bothers me, too.

Yes, that's actually well said. I had no particular problems with her yesterDay, but the more I think of her, the more I dislike her, for being really such a submarine. It's not much more other than that, but it is somewhat unnerving.

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

I would like to vote for either tp or Roa. But I can't decide which one is the wolf, so I am going to hold off casting judgement regarding that particular brawl until tomorrow.

He's odd, he's odd, he's odd. What was that what you replied to someone yesterDay? Was it you, not? Someone said "I will tell you tomorrow" - yes, that was Mr._____ I think - and you said something like "will that be before or after you kill these people?" Or something around these lines. Now look what you do.

Originally Posted by Cailín

Are you for real, Gwathagor? What makes it certain that one has to be a wolf? The fact that they are arguing? That you can't decide whose side you are on, yet whoever ends up less persuasive to you is a wolf, is really quite odd reasoning.

For Gwath, it's not that unusual reasoning, I'd say. He may be wrong (or may not), but I don't think this way of thinking is too odd for him. But, I wonder if you are not a little too jumpy for that? Isn't it that you are building up something here..?

Originally Posted by A Little Green

What comes to Lommy being quiet, well, she studied for some hours, then went off to see her friends, and is going to a concert in the evening. She'll be back well before the DL, I think..

Good, I was just about to worry what's up since she's quiet - that will be veeery unusual and it really started to make me wonder...

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

#71 - More in-character. Thinks Agan is clever, tells Sally to vote Phantom while saying he probably will not... This sets my alarms ringing, for some reason.

Hey hey! A moment, here. I am not telling her to vote the phantom. She voted him, and I, IN-ROLE (as her boyfriend and phantom's business partner!) said that I won't hold grudge against her if she votes (i.e. that I am not going to break up with her because of that. She technically asked that herself). So don't mix it with the game! I think that was clear enough that it was in-character.

Originally Posted by Shasta (cont'd)

#171 - ...I really don't know what to make of this post. Legate, help me out?

As soon as I have time, I'm gonna read what it was and help you out, if possible. Noting down on my schedule, after I finish this reading.

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

At the moment, and this is subject to and in fact probably will change, I'm leaning toward voting Cabbie due to his....well, due to nothing; that's the problem. He's suspicious based on the fact that he's not suspicious. Does that make sense? Didn't think so.

You are right, it does not. Could you please elaborate a little when you are back?!?!!?

(As you can see, aside from exclamation marks, I can use question marks, too.)

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

2. Post #71 - Early on, Phantom was gaining votes more than anyone else. Legate seemed to be encouraging Sally to vote for Phantom, while being able himself to stay away.

Here he says that again! That's nonsense... just read it!

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

Does beautifully = truthfully without hidden agendas?

Bah, I'm slowly getting nowhere in finishing my re-reading. Too much multi-tasking.

X'd with Cailin and Aganzir.

Like I said, Izzy does nothing and then out of the blue posts things like this (which are also nothing, but with accusing edge to it as a bonus). (And what more, the number of people she X-ed with only proves that she is around, only is not posting... which, in this village, is in certain aspect a virtue, right, but then - one would expect you to post at least something more concrete when you have so much time on your hands...)

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Thanks for making my reading process take even more time because after the ending I had to check if there were any "l"'s involved in the "back"s...

You're welcome.


I see this was shorter than usual. (Or was it...)

***
I really don't know whom to vote. There's too much people. And lots of them can be both ways, if you get my meaning.

I more or less like Nilp. I feel also somewhat good about Durelin, whom I think would have been more chaotic and more evil than she looks now. Isabell does very little to actually involve into things, even to those which concern her.
I can't help it: Aganzir makes sense. I really think she IS innocent. Well, maybe.
And I like Lommy. Otherwise, Lhuna seems odd. Roa and Mr._____ are too much for me to see into. I keep mistaking Cailín for Celuien, but I know I am somewhat worried about Cailín (she's the one with the sand-sea looking avvie, and not the frog, right). The third of them is Di - also somewhat worried, but I can't put my finger on it, would have to look at her more deeply. I simply believe I did not play with these three a lot, I think not with all and only for short times, so don't have much idea about them, but I can't think well of at least one of them being a baddie. Then there are some I omitted now, but whom I mentioned already before; with them it stays more or less the way I said before.

Otherwise, we shal see.

EDIT: Darn it, x-ed since some bottom of the previous page...