The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > The Movies
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-29-2008, 02:28 PM   #1
Eönwė
Flame Imperishable
 
Eönwė's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Right here
Posts: 3,928
Eönwė is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.Eönwė is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.Eönwė is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mansun View Post
''I have been sent back until my task is done''.
That's more of a hint, though. It certainly sugggests something divine at work, but it doesn't actually say anything specific.
__________________
Welcome to the Barrow Do-owns Forum / Such a lovely place
Eönwė is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2008, 02:34 PM   #2
Mansun
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eönwė View Post
That's more of a hint, though. It certainly sugggests something divine at work, but it doesn't actually say anything specific.

Hint or not, that particular scene in the Two Towers was one which was used to show the supernatural higher order of power that Gandalf was.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2009, 01:03 PM   #3
Keyan
Pile O'Bones
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 12
Keyan has just left Hobbiton.
I just found this thread today..and I'm sure it will open up more old wounds, but anyway, I felt I wanted to put in my 2 cents:

When I first saw this scene, I was shocked. I felt that its inclusion showed that PJ didn't truly understand Tolkien, or the characters, at all. There is some other evidence of this, or at least of just bad use of language (which is about as anti-Tolkien as you can get), but I digress...

After thinking about the scene more, I think the biggest problem is the complete and somewhat over the top fear that Gandalf displays. He would not be afraid, he had even "died" already, and knew if he died it would not be his true end, as he explains to Pippin with the "green land under a swift sunrise" line earlier.

In the appendices this scene is actually addressed, and IIRC (it's been a while) I think PJ even says he knew it would get a mixed reaction, but it was included to show that basically the age of the old powers was waning, and that Men alone would be able to save Middle earth. The arrival of the Rohirrim is designed to highlight that point. Given this context, the scene makes more sense...I still just don't like how it was played out.

As far as the "Aragorn beating him with some burning sticks" type comments, I feel that it's pretty well established that the Black Riders are less powerful than the fully equipped Nazgul that come later. To me, it seems that their power grows along with the power of their Master, as they are shadows of his power and are bound to it. As the Ring gets heavier, and Sauron's power and influence increase, so does the power of the Nine, which would explain their relative weakness earlier in the story vs their power near the end.

Anyway, it seems that there is a very intelligent and thoughtful group here, I hope to participate some in other areas.
Keyan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2009, 07:38 PM   #4
alatar
Doubting Dwimmerlaik
 
alatar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Heaven's basement
Posts: 2,466
alatar is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.alatar is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keyan View Post
I just found this thread today..and I'm sure it will open up more old wounds, but anyway, I felt I wanted to put in my 2 cents:

When I first saw this scene, I was shocked. I felt that its inclusion showed that PJ didn't truly understand Tolkien, or the characters, at all. There is some other evidence of this, or at least of just bad use of language (which is about as anti-Tolkien as you can get), but I digress...
I totally agree. This scene prompted me to join an internet forum where I could vent...and the rest is history.

Welcome to the Downs, Keyan! Hope you enjoy your stay.
__________________
There is naught that you can do, other than to resist, with hope or without it.
alatar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2009, 08:04 PM   #5
Tuor in Gondolin
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southeast Pennsylvania
Posts: 3,651
Tuor in Gondolin has been trapped in the Barrow!
Send a message via Yahoo to Tuor in Gondolin
Quote:
Originally posted by Keyan
As far as the "Aragorn beating him with some burning sticks" type comments, I feel that it's pretty well established that the Black Riders are less powerful than the fully equipped Nazgul that come later. To me, it seems that their power grows along with the power of their Master, as they are shadows of his power and are bound to it. As the Ring gets heavier, and Sauron's power and influence increase, so does the power of the Nine, which would explain their relative weakness earlier in the story vs their power near the end.
And Aragorn (not movie Aragorn!) was already a powerful, self-assured
figure, head of the Dunedain, "greatest traveler of the age", and warrior of Rohan and Gondor, and so would be less affected by the chief weapon of the nazgul---fear.
__________________
The poster formerly known as Tuor of Gondolin.
Walking To Rivendell and beyond 12,555 miles passed Nt./Day 5: Pass the beacon on Nardol, the 'Fire Hill.'
Tuor in Gondolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2009, 08:11 AM   #6
Ibrīnišilpathānezel
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Ibrīnišilpathānezel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Back on the Helcaraxe
Posts: 733
Ibrīnišilpathānezel is a guest at the Prancing Pony.Ibrīnišilpathānezel is a guest at the Prancing Pony.
Shock didn't even begin to describe my reaction to that scene in Jackson's movie (I suppose it is very telling that 9 times out of 10, I accidentally type "Hackson" before correcting it. It IS an accident, at least consciously. But ah, I know my subconscious, and accidents like these are seldom really accidents...). What it confirmed to me was that he and his co-writers were intent on making LotR "their own," and they decided to change the story from a cooperative effort among many peoples to a focus on the rising "world of Men." Once we leave Lothlorien in their version of the story, other races are there to provide comic relief (Gimli) or spiffy extra-cool action (Legolas -- and I suspect that if the fan girls hadn't panted over Orlando Bloom, his role would have been downplayed). The point at which it became most painfully obvious to me that they didn't get it was the scene where Gandalf is supposedly comforting Pippin about death -- quoting Frodo's dream of Valinor, and equating it with the passage from life to the afterlife. Funny that Gandalf doesn't even recognize the description of the place he came from, and will go back to!

Oh, I shouldn't go on, my heartburn will never forgive me. But I will say that I'm not speaking as a lover of the books who despised the films from the start. I actually thought they made a reasonably good beginning in FotR (yes, I had some issues with it, but I did see promise in that film), which took a steep nosedive with (if not before) the warg-rider battle in TTT. At that point, it appeared to me that, the fan base for the movies having been established, Jackson and crew stopped making movies for the fans of Tolkien, and began making movies for fans of their own. Very sad. I hate it when something that begins well ends badly. And that bit with the Witch King and cowering Gandalf... cripes, you gave all the poor wizard's best lines to other people, couldn't you at least let him have his moment of glory standing fast at the gate...???

sigh
__________________
Call me Ibrin (or Ibri) :)
Originality is the one thing that unoriginal minds cannot feel the use of. — John Stewart Mill
Ibrīnišilpathānezel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2009, 08:37 AM   #7
alatar
Doubting Dwimmerlaik
 
alatar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Heaven's basement
Posts: 2,466
alatar is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.alatar is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibrīnišilpathānezel View Post
And that bit with the Witch King and cowering Gandalf... cripes, you gave all the poor wizard's best lines to other people, couldn't you at least let him have his moment of glory standing fast at the gate...???
Note that I've already written everything that can be written about this topic thrice...and yet I have to say it once again.

If only PJ had put a grin on the prone Gandalf's face, the same wizard that went boot-to-toe with a balrog, all would have been forgiven and forgotten.

I still think that George Lucas is somewhere hiding in the shadows behind all of this...
__________________
There is naught that you can do, other than to resist, with hope or without it.
alatar is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:58 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.