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Old 10-14-2008, 05:40 PM   #1
Legate of Amon Lanc
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Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuor in Gondolin View Post
And the continued influence of Ulmo in Middle-earth waters seem
to me the reason that Sauron and his forces feared water (even the
nazgul). Which leads to the perplexing situation where JRRT said
somwhere (in Letters?) he didn't have a good reason why the bad guys
didn't like water. Ulmo's lingering presence is certainly a believable
cause, as it would be an enabling factor in Elrond controlling surrounding
rivers to protect Rivendell.
Well, I originally thought the same too, but obviously, Tolkien for some reason did not state this as being THE reason. Another aspect is the quality of water by itself: like I mentioned also in my post above, the water is something special, the substance preserving the "echoes of the Song" the best. Water is the only thing that was not corrupted, nor could it have been destroyed (instead, just snow and vapors were formed). And as for the rivers protecting Rivendell, I think more than anything else this was the work of the Elven Ring, and I think that is made clear very plainly in LotR. Because after all, the Nazgul overcame their "hydrophobia" (which was general) and entered the river, but the flood was directed by Elrond.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morthoron View Post
It seems to me, at least by inferrence, that Manwë had more direct interaction at that time than Ulmo.
Indeed, but hasn't it that been always? Even in the First Age? I mean, the "final blow" had always been delivered by Manwë, or on Manwë's account as the leader of Valar. Ulmo operated possibly secretly, and gave guidance to Tuors and such, but he did not interfere directly, creating a flood to suddenly get rid of a horde of Orcs or such. That was simply not his way.
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Old 10-17-2008, 03:13 PM   #2
Eönwë
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Eönwë is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.Eönwë is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.Eönwë is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc View Post
Indeed, but hasn't it that been always? Even in the First Age? I mean, the "final blow" had always been delivered by Manwë, or on Manwë's account as the leader of Valar. Ulmo operated possibly secretly, and gave guidance to Tuors and such, but he did not interfere directly, creating a flood to suddenly get rid of a horde of Orcs or such. That was simply not his way.
Yes, he just sets things up. He puts all the pieces into place, and watches to see what will happen. A "puppet master" of Middle-Earth- In a good way, of course. And let's not forget that he decides who will be saved at sea (And if I remember correctly he is the one who allowed Earendil passage across the Sea).
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