Tol-in-Gaurhoth LII: Star Crossed II: Together for Eternity

[Kitanna]

Clearly my being busy from my first post today and now has made some suspect as a flying under the radar type (or that is how I see it). But I'm here now and will most likely be around until close to deadline.

I plan on taking a look at Eonwe and Eomer and Rikae as well to follow up my suspicions from yesterday.

[Kitanna]

I will start with Eonwe because on Day 1 he said something right before I left for the night that caught my attention:

edit: x-ed with Kitanna- another person stealing my Rikae vote. Grrr!

Up until that point I hadn't noted Eonwe saying much against anyone, much less Rikae.

His first two posts were nothing more than commenting on how quiet things were at that point.His next post is just commentary on the rules in response to something sally had said. He then accuses Lommy of being jumpy after she accused Mac of being jumpy. Not much else to be gathered there.

First she disassociates herself from him by suspecting him, then she defends him. But would Di really make them a couple just to tease us?

First mention of Rikae. Doesn't really cast suspicion on her, seems like he's stating things matter of factly.

Poses the question if Agan is a bold wolf. Calls her phantom-ish in her playing style. In the same posts comments on something Mac said in regards to Rikae.

Originally Posted by Macalaure

And now your defending her too, but not obviously so. Hmmm... The plot thickens

Still isn't really voicing his own suspicions of either.

Next post is the one that initially caught my eye. So up until that point in Eonwe's posting he hadn't really voiced any suspicions on anyone and it was only after Eomer and I cross voted that he came right out and said he had plans to vote for Rikae.

This post was about to be a vote-post, but for some reason I just had a sudden feeling that I shouldn't vote Rikae.
I'll wait and see what she has to say for herself (if it's in the next 45 minutes).

Yet he provides no reason as to why he would have voted Rikae in the first place. Unless I just haven't picked up on his subtleties the two posts he mentioned Rikae in before this didn't seem like he really suspected her.

His next few posts contain very little substance. They name no one and are generally responses to simple questions. His post #142 tallies the few votes up until that point. No mention of how he's feeling about Rikae.

I should probably sleep, but I haven't got any good ideas yet.

What makes it harder is I'm afraid to accuse a gifted.

No explanation he was so sure he'd vote for Rikae and then nothing, now he finds himself totally unsure. His next post is more lamenting of the same kind.

And he has a whole slew of votes with no content, just blather really. And then, out of seemingly no where, a vote for Legate. No explanation, no nothing. He states it randomly which is not really a big deal to me, but the fact he was so sure about Rikae worries me. For four posts he mentions Rikae, two stating things she said but not really doing anything with them, one where he comments on not being the first to vote for her, and one where he wants to give her more time. Then a random vote for Legate.

His first post from today highlights the deaths, speculating why Lalaith and Legate were killed, nothing sinister there. Next he provides a vote tally making sure to highlight those with confirmed roles, vote numbers, etc. Helpful, but no insight into what Eonwe is thinking.

And it looks like he voted for Nogrod today. I'm guessing he was under time constraints, but that's another random vote on his part.

What worries me about Eonwe is how much he talks, but how little he is saying. That's not even what bothers me the most, innocents are perfectly capable of lots of posts that don't help too much, but Eonwe rarely names anyone in his posts. I feel like he's trying to distance himself from everyone by randomly voting and casting absolutely no suspicions on anyone. I'm also interested in why he was ready to vote for Rikae, but backed off immediately? Was he looking for a safe vote, but when he acquired two he didn't want to find himself in a bandwagon?

[Rikae]

Kitanna - it occurs to me that perhaps Eonwe thought I might be gifted. Thought I'd mention that since, if he does, he probably doesn't want to mention it himself.

Eomer's behavior is very strange, in that it looks like the old wolf-trap technique of casting a random vote and then turning on the person who follows it, except that the person in question, cross-voted.

Brinn is worrying me - I'm going to go back and look at something.

Oh yes, and Mac and Nogrod should knock off the "Itchy and Scratchy" routine already.

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Well, looking back to the first points made by Macalaure I might now see the reason:

Did it take you three hours to understand why you were annoyed, or to finally come up with a convincing backstory to your faked annoyance?

Groin ~ is barely there, and what he said today I didn't like
Aganzir ~ innocent, I think
Kitanna ~ haven't paid very much attention to her, I admit, but what I've seen so far didn't alarm me
Gollum ~ completely escaped my attention (it's good I do these lists once a day - I'd forget about half the people...)
Nogrod ~ has been exceedingly strange today. I'm pondering whether it's enough to vote for him
Brinniel ~ not worried about
Sally ~ I have a bad feeling about her - I'll rethink it tomorrow, I think
Shasta ~ not worried either
Gwath ~ not really sure, but not alarmed right now either
Rikae ~ seems more innocent than guilty
McCaber ~ ???
Fea ~ not sure, but not really suspicious right now either
Lily ~ kept herself somewhere around the edges of my argument with Nogrod, suspects him but didn't vote him... worried
Eönwë ~ I think I need to have a closer look at tomorrow. Something's strange about him
Eomer ~ I still get a baddish vibe from him, but it's not enough to vote him today

I think I'll give Nogrod the benefit of doubt for today. Sally, Eonwe, and Eomer I'm suspicious of, but I need to really make my mind up first. The same holds for Lily. This only leaves Groin out of my suspects, but I'm not sure whether he's actually evil or whether he just doesn't have a grasp at this village yet and is hindered by little time.

Hmmm...


++Groin Redbeard

[Rikae]

Ok, the thing I thought I remembered about Brinn turned out to be wrong.
I did, however, notice that Groin already commented on my first post early yesterDay. He shows up toDay in order to attack that post again (when it looks like he'll have some support, perhaps?) even though his points have already been made by someone else and addressed. He really looks like someone who is looking for some accusation to make that won't make any waves. The only thing in his favor, to my mind, is that this kind of playing may be too lazy to be evil.

[Brinniel]

Continuing where I left off...

Nogrod: Was actually rather quiet at the beginning, but now back to his typical self. While I agree with his supicions towards Sally, I disagree with his arguments against Mac. But really, he looks quite sensible. No alarm bells ringing yet.

Sally: As I mentioned, I do agree with Nogrod that Sally's been acting a bit differently. At the beginning of the game, she starts off fairly silly and later on does add a few silly bits here and there...but I'm used to a much more crazy Sally; that's her playing style. So could the serious turn in her behaviour possibly mean she's a lover?

Shasta: Has made a lot of posts without saying all that much. His vote yesterDay for Aganzir is the vote I'm least comfortable with. It was the second vote for her and I don't see much reason behind it. It feels like an attempt for a last-minute bandwagon to me. His one-liner questions/commentary in response to others' posts seem a bit forced.

Gwath: Is flying under the radar. His reasons behind voting Fea yesterDay seem rather flawed, but other than that, nothing really stands out to me.

Rikae: Focused a lot on Mac yesterDay, though not so much toDay. Nothing about her stands out as suspicious. In fact, I'd say her vote for Aganzir makes her less suspicious because with two votes, she was at risk of getting lynched...if she were a lover, it wouldn't make sense to spread out the voting even more and continue her chances of getting lynched. I just think a lover would be more concerned with keeping her and her partner in safety.

Mac: Has acquired a lot of attention. I wonder if that's because he's managed to be quite the sneaky wolf in the past. But looking at his posts, his arguments seem sensible to me and I don't see him very suspicious at all.

McCaber: Ehm...we've seen very little of him, so I can't say much. Would a lover be so uninvolved? I want to say it's unlikely, but it's possible...especially if lack of participation is unavoidable due to RL.

This is taking me a long time...so I think I'll post what I have now and finish looking at the last four in a little bit.

[McCaber]

So I should probably take some valuable programming time to think.

Is it too late to take Eonwe to task for lack of content? (Aware of the hypocrisy, thank you very much.) Lots of posts, no actual opinions expressed. I'm keeping watch on you. Shape up.

Eomer - confusing. Not least due to post shortage.

I'll be coming back in and out, but not very frequently. After today, werewolves should have my full attention.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

++Rikae

Because I'm uncomfortable with her here's my suspicion, just kidding, but no really, I'm suspicious approach to Mac, as well as the way she just sort of agrees with suspicious things Eomer and I do. I mean, it's nice to have somebody thinking on the same level I am, but when everybody else thinks I'm insane and one person is just like *nodding* I could see that, it kind of makes me wonder if they really do or if they just want to get on my good side.

[Rikae]

Guess I should respond to Fea:

Originally Posted by Fea

I'm uncomfortable with her here's my suspicion, just kidding, but no really, I'm suspicious approach to Mac...

Yes, I've noticed, over the past two days, quite a few people dislike my approach to Mac. I disagree - I like it just fine, and I'm quite comfortable with it. I will most likely use it in the future, so you all are just going to have to get comfortable with it.

Originally Posted by Fea

...as well as the way she just sort of agrees with suspicious things Eomer and I do.

Well, since you call it suspicious, I take it you're admitting to being a baddie? And in cahoots with Eomer, too? Very well, then.

I would certainly do those sorts of things myself innocently, at any rate. I guess it comes down to how likely I think someone is to behave as I would.

On another note:
Yes, McCaber, you haven't posted much, and yes, it's strange, under those circumstances, to show up and attack other (less) quiet players. Yes, I think it's a strategy to exempt yourself from suspicion on those grounds. I'm watching you.

EDIT: To clarify, the "sorts of things" I would do innocently are: pot-stirring like Eomer's, and hoping rules discussion might provoke a wolf slip.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I'd like to point out to Brinniel that people have been saying that "Sally's been slightly different than how she usually plays..." for the last four games or so.

Oh, I'm sorry, did that seem forced?

Edit: Brinniel, not Fea. Their avatars are similar.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Also, I'd like to correct Kitanna real quick.

Originally Posted by me, not Eomer

So... Forgive me for stating the obvious, but I'm confused. Are you and Kitanna lovers? And if so, why would you betray her? Doesn't seem very sportsmanlike.

Originally Posted by Kitanna

You can't be bitter about our victory as lovers in the wizards game can you Eomer?

[Rikae]

Vote count, since we don't have one yet:

Greenie: ++Gollum (Gollum 1)
Eomer: ++Kitanna (Gollum 1, Kitanna 1)
Aganzir: ++Fea (Gollum 1, Kitanna 1, Fea 1)

Eönwë: ++Nogrod (Gollum 1, Kitanna 1, Fea 1, Nogrod 1)

Mac: ++Groin (Gollum 1, Kitanna 1, Fea 1, Nogrod 1, Groin 1)
Fea: ++Rikae (Gollum 1, Kitanna 1, Fea 1, Nogrod 1, Groin 1, Rikae 1)

As for me, I'm beginning to think that this village has far too many submarines who, when they do post, post things that don't make much sense, and I'm rather inclined to vote for such a person. Between suspicious and quiet, and suspicious and loud, the latter are more fun to have around and will give us more to judge them by as the game progresses.
I'd put Gollum, Gwath, Groin, Eönwë and McCaber, in that category - far too many - and there's too little to go on. Gollum has been called an "easy target" by Nogrod, but the sort of behavior he's shown looks to me more like an "easy target" in the sense of a newbie baddie than of a newbie ordo. Groin I already addressed - it looks like he's trying to go with the flow and avoid saying anything too unique/bold. Eönwë isn't saying much of substance, but doesn't look necessarily guilty to me at this point (although rather "iffy") - Gwath has said some things that just don't make a lot of sense, and I expect better from him - McCaber may be *too* quiet to be evil.

[Kitanna]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Also, I'd like to correct Kitanna real quick.

I am just having a bad day mixing people up today.

But I'm going to cast my vote now. I've narrowed it down to Eonwe and Eomer.

I'm not a fan of the way Eomer is acting. I'd find it weird if anyone was doing it, but I'm particularly hurt because it's me (kidding). In seriousness though his behavior has me worried. He had one post yesterday which could have been no more than a time problem, however today he had one attack about my first post of the day. It made a bit of sense at first, but after that it was nothing more than personal attacks based on nothing.

Then there's Eonwe, he has talked an awful lot, but hasn't said much that's actually helpful. He was all ready to vote for Rikae and then without her saying anything he decided to give her more time. Rikae suggests Eonwe thought she might be a gifted. But I'm not sure about that. It could be possible he thought that, but I'm wondering what he saw in Rikae's posts from before his post #113.

++ Eonwe

Eomer needs to be watched and I am worried about his behavior today and I want to see what he does tomorrow. I'm worried about Eonwe just as much, but I feel tomorrow will be more of the same from Eonwe (talking lots, being careful not to associate with anyone, maybe even randomly voting).

[McCaber]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Hm, it occurs to me that if those gentlemen I listed are too offended at being called "less fun", four of them could vote for me now and lynch me.

Well gentlemen, shall we?

On a more serious note, I have no idea what my fellow quiet ones are thinking. I'm considering voting for one of them randomly to see how they react.

Or I could vote Eonwe, who looks something other than innocent. I'm rather torn.

[satansaloser2005]

An update:

Just wanted to apologize for not being around very much toDay. It's been very busy, and I got quite ill this evening so I'm not up to par.

Which brings me to my next point. I don't feel comfortable voting toDay; I hope that's all right. I've been (sort of) reading the thread but haven't been comprehending a whole lot. Basically, I don't think it would be fair for me to shoot out a vote just for the sake of voting; it makes more sense to abstain for the Day and give myself a bit of a chance to catch up so I'll be better prepared (assuming I'm alive) toMorrow.

Sorry for being such a pain, and thanks in advance for understanding.



EDIT: x'd like wow, because I forgot to actually post this for several minutes. Heh I've been watching the game and totally forgot to submit this. Heh, the point of the post was so no one was waiting for my vote, and look when I'm posting this. *crashes*

[Shastanis Althreduin]

++Eonwe

[McCaber]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

++Eonwe

Who's the bandwaggon now?

EDIT: crossed with the DL

[Diamond18]

Deadline time. Eönwë will die shortly.

[Diamond18]

The second Day on Not-So-Tempting Island ended in much the same way as the first. Eönwë, a chatty lad who spoke much whilst saying little, in the estimation of the group, was chosen for death. Shoved into a corner and grimly surrounded, he had nothing to say at the end in his defense. But when the knife was jabbed through his heart, no one wept or threw themselves at his feet. He died alone, unloved. How sad.

It is again Night.

The Living Lonely Hearts Club:

Groin
Aganzir
Kitanna
Gollum
Nogrod
Brinniel
Sally
Shasta
Gwath
Rikae
Mac
McCaber
Fea
Greenie
Eomer

Hearts Which Have Stopped Beating:

Diamond (Lonely Heart)
Lommy (Lonely Heart)
Legate (Lonely Heart)
Lalaith (Lonely Heart)
Eönwë (Lonely Heart)

[Diamond18]

Late at night, a pair went skulking hand in hand towards Nogtod’s room. One held a dagger in hand, the other nodded grimly with determination in eye. But when they arrived at Nogrod’s door, something brought them up short. A figure slumped there, against the frame, clutching something to its chest. A floorboard squeaked under one miscreants' foot, and the figure leapt up, brandishing a mighty fire poker. They saw nothing but shadowy form, and heard a voice cry out, “Go! Go from this room! You will not kill tonight!”

They hid their faces and ran from the scene of their would-be crime.

Meanwhile, in another part of the richly yet tastefully decorated mansion, Kitanna lay sweetly slumbering in her bed. The pillow beside her was cold and ununsed. Two figures rose up on either side of her bed. One nodded to the other, and a dagger was plunged into the maiden’s lonely heart. Soon, she breathed no more, though she bled a great deal.

The morning found one dead body.

The Living Lonely Hearts Club:

Groin
Aganzir
Gollum
Nogrod
Brinniel
Sally
Shasta
Gwath
Rikae
Mac
McCaber
Fea
Greenie
Eomer

Hearts Which Have Stopped Beating:

Diamond (Lonely Heart)
Lommy (Lonely Heart)
Legate (Lonely Heart)
Lalaith (Lonely Heart)
Eönwë (Lonely Heart)
Kitanna (Lonely Heart)

[Nogrod]

Uh... erm... what the...?

Well, firstly and foremostly: thank you ms/mr ranger! That was well done indeed! I hope I can help you in someway to pay back this - and let's hope I'm not going to help lynching you... It would be pretty pathetic.

But to the questionmarks in the beginning there.

It sure is unusual that the name of the saved person is declared. Not that it should have any significance in this kind of a game. Or does it? I mean why to do it if it has no signifigance? It's just hard to see the point of revealing it was me one of the lover-pairs tried to get rid of. If I'm not totally mistaken the only thing that changes here is that the other team now knows the other one was after me - and you villagers know it. But what's the value of that information?

Okay. There's this: now both wolf-teams know I'm not a member of the other team. But I'm still not so sure about the value of that piece of information.

Anyway. It looks like I'm dead meat the next Night. Happily I have some time later today so I can try to make the best out of the little time I still have (and Mac can use his energies into the actual wolf-hunt as well... ).

Secondly. The narration seems to make it quite plain that there are two teams of two going about their killing-business during Nights. And there is a ranger. Now what makes me wonder is that even if it looks like we are at the moment losing this game and losing it bad (just look at the list of the dead) the initial situation of there being just two pairs of baddies in a village of twenty puts the baddies into an almost hopeless position in the beginning.

A total number of four baddies in a village of twenty is kind of the average number but as (or should we now start pondering, if?) they are linked to each other it would be really bad for the baddies.

There is something wrong here.

But be it this or that way, we sure need to start pulling our act together now. Five dead innocents and no lovers caught. That's a bad performance. I'll be back trying to do my part later in to the Day.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Jumping in to say good morning. I won't have time to do this properly until midafternoon, but I wanted to register my mixed up thoughts about Nogrod.

So here's what we know for sure from last night's narration: he's not the Ranger.

Okay... werewolf isn't being my forte this morning. I need to get ready for work and stop trying to think critically while it's still dark out. I'll see everyone this afternoon.

[Gwathagor]

Interesting points regarding Eomer.

At the end of yesterDay, I said that I'd explain my vote for Rikae, but I took too long doing it and so missed the deadline. Sorry. Here it is now.

Originally Posted by Rikae

At any rate - the person I find most suspicious right now is Aganzir. I've suspected Lommy too, but I don't like to lynch her on Day One...

Looks like a baddie trying to gain some credibility when Lommy would turn out to be innocent - oh dang, never mind, that's a terrible reason. Drat.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Just thought I'd pop in to say I'm working on a midterm that's due tomorrow, so I won't be able to contribute much, but I am following the discussion.
Groin, go read what I already said about that post, I see no need to say anything else. *shrug*
I do find myself wondering if the fact that no one has paid any attention to my increasing number of lovers theory means I've stumbled on the truth and those who know it are afraid to tip me off, assuming I know it too - but I suppose more likely you all just think I'm loony.

I don't like this post, because it forces us to assume she is innocent. I elaborated yesterDay.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Guess I should respond to Fea:

Yes, I've noticed, over the past two days, quite a few people dislike my approach to Mac. I disagree - I like it just fine, and I'm quite comfortable with it. I will most likely use it in the future, so you all are just going to have to get comfortable with it.

Man! I disagree! If somebody's arguments don't sit right with me, I'm gonna vote them! I don't have to just live with it.


So, um, I'm ashamed to say that upon further examination, none of these are very good reasons for me to have voted Rikae.

In conclusion, then: while I may intuitively find her suspicious, I can't yet do so on a rational basis.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Brinn on Gollum

My guess is that this is more innocentish newbie behaviour...as a lover, I think his partner would advice him on how to contribute more and blend in so not to stand out.

I wouldn't say so. His behaviour, especially that question-avoiding attitude, reminds me of Gwath's first performance as a wolf. Also throwing around random suspicion which, when asked to elaborate, has no grounds, is a thing I have seen wolves do before.

Originally Posted by Nog

I wonder why Agan was so keen on defending him???

I would call it neither being keen nor defending - I think I only said I want to hear more from Gwath before forming an opinion. I accused sally of her opportunistic-looking suspicions, and although Gwath's vote was a bit weird, I don't find it a sole reason to accuse someone of.
I don't think much can be even gathered from the votes, since if the baddies don't have a team (as they don't seem to have), they can vote with honest reasons as well.

My case against Gollum was probably longer and richer in content than all his posts that far. I gave him a chance to reply to me, and although he said he'd make a list of suspicions and things, he apparently didn't find my points against him worth commenting. I'm pretty positive I'm going to vote him today.

Originally Posted by Mac

#245+#253 - Aganzir doesn't know what to do with her, then calls her defense of me unsuspicious.

Correction - #245 was the post where I summed up Lalaith's thoughts. It was she who didn't know what to think of Kit, not me.

I just came home from school and want something to eat. I'm planning to go and watch Der Baader Meinhof Komplex today, though, so I might be back only after that.

edit: xed with Gwath

[McCaber]

It's quiet... too quiet. I'm not sure I have anything to say about the night. At least only one kill went down.

My question is who would have a reason to kill Nogrod? (I only ask about Nog because other people have done the Kitanna bit) I don't have an answer yet, but I think it's a worthwhile question.

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

(Someone defended her yesterDay for that, saying people have said that a few games already... who was it? Have to check back for that if no one remembers it.)

I believe it was Shasta who said it.

Speaking of Shasta, I'm still worried about him. Towards the end of the Day I was a bit hesistant about my suspicions of him, but then his vote looks suspicious. I need to keep an eye on him toDay.

Sally, I'm not sure about. We didn't get a lot from her and she chose not to vote yesterDay. I would like to hear more from her, but unfortunately it seems RL is keeping her away, as she stated in the admin thread. For that reason, I doubt I'll be voting for her...I just hope she shows up a lot more toMorrow.

While the protection of Nogrod cannot confirm whether he's innocent or not, I'm more inclined to believe the former. His initial reaction may have included errors, but he sounded honest enough. I think the squabble between him and Mac is more likely a back-and-forth between two innocents than anything.

I agree with Nogrod that Groin's probably an ordo. To just give up would otherwise indeed be rather unsportsmanlike.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

But in a situation like this, would it be an ordo who would decide just not to vote or one of a pair of lovers? That indeed is a question.

That's a good question. I don't think we can really eliminate either possibilities. Though if a player missed a vote multiple times, I would start to doubt the idea of them being a lover.

[Brinniel]

Suspicious:

Sally: My opinions of her haven't changed much since yesterDay, though her chosen no-vote makes her slightly less suspicious. But only slightly. Since she hasn't been around toDay I can't really say much else. I won't vote her simply because I want to hear more from her.

Shasta: Has also made much less of an appearance toDay. I don't know...a lot of his comments and actions have made me think him suspicious, though I admit there's a little tiny part of me that's hesitant.

Rikae: I don't know what to with this behaviour she's suddenly switched to. It's almost like someone set off this ticking bomb. Her defensiveness definitely bothers me. And now she has this "fine, lynch me" attitude...which seems like reverse psychology to me.

Not Sure:

Aganzir: Still nothing about her alarms me. Her vote for Gollum seems reasonable enough due to the posts leading up to the vote. Still, part of me is slightly worried about her...just because I know she can turn into quite the nasty character.

Gwath: Still falling under my radar. He makes a lot of very short and simple comments, though nothing feels sinister about them. However, I would like to hear him say more.

McCaber: Has fallen under my radar. He has said so little, but still seems to be trying to actively participate. I wonder if I should be worried about him.

Fea: Still not sure about her. I like the posts she's made toDay though, which has made me relax my suspicions of her.

Eomer: Seems very relaxed...I don't know if that should make me more suspicious or less suspicious of him. Right now I'm going back and forth.

Innocentish:

Groin: His lack of effort towards this game makes me think he's more likely innocent.

Gollum: Looks like innocentish newbie behaviour to me. Like I said, an easy target.

Nogrod: His posts really do feel honest and open, even if I do disagree with some of the things he's been saying.

Mac: Hasn't said much toDay, but nothing that he has said has made me change my thoughts on him. While I don't like his attacks on Nogrod, I think it's more likely an ordo on ordo scuffle. Also, I doubt a lover Mac would bother to even point out his suspicions of Noggie when he's most likely to die in the Night anyway.

Greenie: Her choice to not vote makes me think she may be more likely innocent. I just think that an evil Greenie would at least vote, even if she didn't post much else.

EDIT: X-ed since Page 12 began