Tol-in-Gaurhoth LII: Star Crossed II: Together for Eternity

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

But it doesn't make sense to have two rangers. Except it doesn't make sense not to, if Eomer didn't protect Nogrod.

Interesting. You Fea if any should be familiar with this most elementary ranger-gamble: whether to protect a known innocent in a tight place when the baddies think he will be protected or take the risk and not do it so that the baddies go for somewhere else and s/he could then protect the known innocent the next Night for real buying her/him one more Day around.

It kind of looks like you knew the baddies were after me last Night in any case... Was it because you were?

But who the heck then saved me and why was in to mentioned like the earlier "saves" were mentioned? Maybe you Fea just really aren't able to pick the pieces together right now as you said?

Gah, this is getting twisted indeed....

[Nogrod]

Exactly my thoughts Gwath!

That really bothers me as well, the revelation of Eomer's role I mean... and the timing of Fea's own revelation...

[Gwathagor]

I'll lay my cards on the table.

I think that Fea has lied about Eomer, and that Eomer is playing along. I also think that he wisely claimed not to have protected you, Nogrod, in order that he not contradict the real Ranger. And, suddenly, the idea of two Rangers is introduced and the real Ranger is no longer able to prove Eomer's guilt by a counter-reveal. This is how I see the situation, and it's diabolical.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

While I don't immediately see the advantage in Fea revealing my role (it could be nothing more than gaining a known innocent when one of us dies... or whatever weird scenario plays out when she dies) neither do I see an advantage in evil-Fea's doing what she did.

Gwath, someone always spells out the opposing theory when there's a gifted reveal. I have little to say other than your theory is not true, but very plausible to the unknowing villager.

Maybe Fea is telling us half a truth? The whole thing about both sides being at a disadvantage to kill her seems a bit odd, and too dominating a role.

Another thought: I think the other Ranger might be on the Lovers' side, to protect the different Lover pairs from each other, and focus their attacks on the ordos. Now, this gift might be a bit difficult to use in a rational way, but what if he/she was connected in some way to a Seer? It seems far-fetched though, because we are swiftly running out of players for the roles; and how likely is it that we just killed a bunch of ordos and left the gifteds til the end?

Yeah, this is baffling.

[Brinniel]

Glad to hear Eomer's response. Now I know he is also not on the village's side. He cannot be the ranger and I know this for a fact.

Sorry I can't explain this now...I've gotta run to class. But DO NOT trust Eomer and Fea. I'll be back in about three hours to say more.

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Glad to hear Eomer's response. Now I know he is also not on the village's side. He cannot be the ranger and I know this for a fact.

No, he cannot.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

No, he cannot.

Oooops even more!

So how many rangers do we have or what the heck?

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Glad to hear Eomer's response. Now I know he is also not on the village's side. He cannot be the ranger and I know this for a fact.

OOOPPPS!

This is getting even more interesting... I'm off to look at the election special for a while but rest assured I will be back.

[Nogrod]

Just a quick thought that came to my mind while having a cigarette on my balcony.

It would surely be unethical to PM Groin and ask him to give the one vote for Fea toDay, or perhaps better toMorrow, while we all others withdrew from voting... But if he happens to come online and post something that might be suggested.

Okay. Needs to think...

But the first one right here.

If Fea and Eomer are the last lovers there are they have played themselves into a nice position as not too many of us might be ready to challenge them. The problem remains who rescued myself and Agan during those two Nights then? Somehow I'm not too keen on the idea of two rangers, it looks like an out-of-place -ruling in a game with this general mood.

But if there is someone who is a ranger, s/he should carefully think when to come forwards. Even if I'm not suggesting you come from the closet immediately or toDay anyway, s/he should not leave it too late if those two are not having our best interests in mind. But that's her/his choice.

The next thing that irks me is that if Eomer actually is the ranger why did Fea reveal him? That was totally unnecessary - as well as Fea's own revealment. Which kind of tells me there is something fishy in there. Why did Fea feel it okay to sacrifice the ranger the next Night if she is indeed a goodie? How deep in trouble we are if that is a reasonable way of action performed by the seer?

Could the small numbers of lover-pairs (only two in this big a village) be compensated with a scenario where there is no seer but the lovers get one dream as well as a kill by Night? If the lovers got through the first few Days, then that added with the general uncertitude about the roles might prove to be a great weapon.

My brains are boiling... how I love this!

[Nogrod]

No fancy theories, just feelings on people...

Groin
So much out of this game I will not vote him and will be totally annoyed with him is he a baddie (was online today but didn't bother checking in). He's more sporty than that so I just don't believe he's a baddie. Really.

Brinniel
Gwath
All they can be blamed of is talking sense (well, not Gwath in the beginning... ). It is no mark of innocence as such but makes me feel better to have them around.

Gollum
I have no idea. Sometimes he looks very suspicious but on others just totally out of touch. If we knew we could afford checking him out I might suggest it. But now I'm not sure.

Sally
Shasta
The two I kind of suspect right now for different reasons I've discussed already some of. I'll try to be more eloquent about that later as some rely on my view of Fea as well...

Fea
Eomer
Either they are our gifteds or then they are lovers... or then there are some really interesting roles and Fea is bad and Eomer is good... or then something else...

Huh.

Originally Posted by Eomer

how likely is it that we just killed a bunch of ordos and left the gifteds til the end?

A good point indeed... so how come all these gifteds start crawling from their caves right now...

Originally Posted by Eomer

While I don't immediately see the advantage in Fea revealing my role (it could be nothing more than gaining a known innocent when one of us dies... or whatever weird scenario plays out when she dies) neither do I see an advantage in evil-Fea's doing what she did.

If there are no really strange things going on you Eomer will bite the dust toNight and we've lost a ranger. That's what's worrying me about the revealmement - especially looking how well you have performed in this game.

It's like Fea got the knowledge and wished to signal that to another baddie party (who's turn it is to make the kill the next Night)? Or anything Di might have come up with as the scenario...

But your scenario about information I just don't believe. She would know better to just hide that info so if she was dead we could be able to read it and not lynch you toMorrow...

And if she's evil, there's no telling right now what the actual situation is I'm afraid... not even what it is with you dear Eomer...

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Interesting. You Fea if any should be familiar with this most elementary ranger-gamble: whether to protect a known innocent in a tight place when the baddies think he will be protected or take the risk and not do it so that the baddies go for somewhere else and s/he could then protect the known innocent the next Night for real buying her/him one more Day around.

No, I mean the night a few nights ago you were protected. You were attacked and didn't die. The narration said so. And if Eomer wasn't protecting you on the night you were attacked and survived it, then how is it you're alive?

Originally Posted by Narration, Night Three

Late at night, a pair went skulking hand in hand towards Nogtod’s room. One held a dagger in hand, the other nodded grimly with determination in eye. But when they arrived at Nogrod’s door, something brought them up short. A figure slumped there, against the frame, clutching something to its chest. A floorboard squeaked under one miscreants' foot, and the figure leapt up, brandishing a mighty fire poker. They saw nothing but shadowy form, and heard a voice cry out, “Go! Go from this room! You will not kill tonight!”

They hid their faces and ran from the scene of their would-be crime.

So there was absolutely a night when Nogrod was protected and attacked. And if Eomer didn't protect him, than surely somebody must have.

Originally Posted by Nog

The next thing that irks me is that if Eomer actually is the ranger why did Fea reveal him?

This is easy. When I woke up, I saw that the people who were getting the most suspicion were Sally and Eomer. My Tuesdays are wretched and I was terrified that if I didn't post right then, I wouldn't have a chance to come back; I was afraid that if the trend of suspicion that started this morning continued, I'd come back and it would be too late for me to save two people who the village can't really risk to lose. I took a really tough gamble, hoping that if I revealed enough innocents, we'd narrow down the list of potential Lovers and lynch them today, before anybody I'd revealed was slain in the night.

Originally Posted by Eomer

Another thought: I think the other Ranger might be on the Lovers' side, to protect the different Lover pairs from each other, and focus their attacks on the ordos. Now, this gift might be a bit difficult to use in a rational way, but what if he/she was connected in some way to a Seer?

How would they be attached? Would the Cobbler-Ranger find out who the Seer had dreamed of? Except I can't dream of bad guys, so if somebody was finding out who I was dreaming of, would it really help the Lovers? I mean, it would give a Cobbler-Ranger a sort of view like "Mac's innocent so there's no point protecting him" except that seems so wildly convoluted.

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Glad to hear Eomer's response. Now I know he is also not on the village's side. He cannot be the ranger and I know this for a fact.

How can you know this? Are there multiple seers the same way we're hypothesizing that there are multiple rangers?

Of course I could understand why a Lover would want to dissuade the village from trusting the identities of a revealed pair of innocent-gifteds. If one of us dies today, and not the Lovers, that gives the Lovers another night to kill with impunity.

Why must you be so blatant, Brinniel, in your attempts to manipulate the village into accidentally killing two of its most powerful members?

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

No, he cannot.

Good god, are you serious? These two must certainly be Lovers. I can't imagine any other role that would involve its players so stupidly contradicting me when I assure you with perfect confidence and honesty that I have been dreaming every night.

[Nogrod]

I must say I'm really getting troubled with this... Fea answers Gwath and points at Brinn's post about "knowing" that Eomer is not what he says he is:

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

Good god, are you serious? These two must certainly be Lovers. I can't imagine any other role that would involve its players so stupidly contradicting me when I assure you with perfect confidence and honesty that I have been dreaming every night.

Now if they were lovers they would exactly not do that, right? It would be most stupid indeed for a last pair of lovers to behave that securely against the revealments made. So even suggesting that Fea looks very fishy indeed.

Any other possibilities? I mean I'm a bit confused by the rush and confidence of the way people here reveal or hint that they actually know better. It kind of points towards this being a really deciding moment and not a Day when we just have two lovers and seven innocents left - and whence an innocent dying this Day and probably one the coming Night - would leave us with five innocents against two baddies toMorrow.

I have been from the beginning of the opinion that there being only two pairs of lovers in this-sized village would be unbelievable. I'm not sure whether we got a pair more last Night or was it there from the beginning but looking at it there being four baddies able to win together around right now would explain this rush and certainty.

I mean with nine villagers left of which four being baddies able to win together we would indeed be playing our last Day unless we got it right toDay!

But even granted that, Fea's point about Brinn and Gwath looks bad because to believably make it she should then "know" the situation to be as dangerous as I described it - and she should have known the direness of our situation already yesterDay when she decided to reveal herself. And we have heard nothing about it.

Instead of describing that scenario to us she uses pretty lame defences / counter-accusations like:

Of course I could understand why a Lover would want to dissuade the village from trusting the identities of a revealed pair of innocent-gifteds. If one of us dies today, and not the Lovers, that gives the Lovers another night to kill with impunity.

and:

Why must you be so blatant, Brinniel, in your attempts to manipulate the village into accidentally killing two of its most powerful members?

Of which the first actually counter-argues against the direness of our possible situation (the loss we'd have would only be that of giving the lovers a free kill the next Night) and the second is merely a rhetorical piece with all that "most powerful members" -stuff I kind of don't think is an argument at all.

Or do we have here lovers (some or all of them) finally going after each other openly? But why would they do that? Shouldn't they do that during the Night at this phase of the game and not get that attention?

Thinking, thinking, thinking... and watching the elections...

EDIT: X'd with Brinn and Gwath... Well, well, well...