Werewolf LIII: The Republic

[the phantom]

I bet if we made a list of suspects right now, before anyone has even started talking, we'd be just as accurate as we would be at sundown.

Encouraging thought, yes?

But I'm extremely excited about the whole vote-for-reps thing. There are so many possibilities! Even upon death (if I am so unfortunate) I will be following the village closely from beyond.

[the phantom]

Anyone have theories on the WW rep-voting behavior?

Give their power to one Wolf? Possible, but not the best option.

Ideally they'd each want to be a rep. But it is likely that they would wish to refrain from outright campaigning for voting power, as it might arouse suspicion. It would be safer to appear sane and reasonable and hope to garner at least one single vote from an innocent. Then if another WW tacks on his vote- presto! Instant rep!

So if each WW gets one rep-vote, they could circle vote for each other and hold eight votes in their paws. This would certainly be enough power to control the lynch.

But naturally there are less straighforward ways to operate...

[the phantom]

And the easier time they'll have of eating the village. I don't see the reason behind this at all, Phantom.

What I mean is, we leave the option open and then dare them to try it.

I agree that the filibuster is more likely to work to their advantage seeing as they are the only villagers with concrete knowledge at this point. Besides the Seer, but I doubt the Seer would risk a filibuster so early. Because the use of a filibuster would indicate a stronger than average read on guilt/innocence.

I would be unlikely to use a filibuster to trade one life for another because frankly I don't feel strongly enough about anyone. Why would you use a filibuster unless you know something? Which points to WWs and the Seer of course.

Though later in the game perhaps an Ordo will get a strong read on someone. But there will always be the nagging doubt, which might perhaps be strong enough to discourage someone from taking such strong action, and spending so much time on it.

[the phantom]

Here's a question- who gets lynched if there are no reps to vote on the lynching?

If each person were to grant their voting power to the person above them on the list, no one would gain two votes. Thus there would be no voters for the second half. What would happen then? Random lynch? Nothing?

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Here's a question- who gets lynched if there are no reps to vote on the lynching?

If each person were to grant their voting power to the person above them on the list, no one would gain two votes. Thus there would be no voters for the second half. What would happen then? Random lynch? Nothing?

My guess is we would have no representatives and therefore no votes on who would be lynched, ergo no lynch. I don't see that there would be any usefulness in that so why would you bring it up? It only seems to benefit the wolves.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by morm

Can somebody, *looks at the phantom* fill me in on exactly what the purpose of the fillibuster is?

All right.

Let's say that I strongly suspect you are the Seer, and that Shasta is a WW.

Shasta has just pulled ahead in the voting with one hour left, but two reps still have to vote, and one of them is leaning towards voting for you.

And so in order to save you and ensure Shasta's demise, I leap in and declare a filibuster, and proceed to post every two minutes on a specific topic until the deadline arrives.

By doing this I block that other rep from voting for you and Shasta is lynched instead.

Sound good?

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by morm

My guess is we would have no representatives and therefore no votes on who would be lynched, ergo no lynch. I don't see that there would be any usefulness in that so why would you bring it up?

I'm just curious. We've never had this sort of village before, so I would just like to know the possibilities, no matter if they're useless or unlikely to occur.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by the phantom

All right.

Let's say that I strongly suspect you are the Seer, and that Shasta is a WW.

Shasta has just pulled ahead in the voting with one hour left, but two reps still have to vote, and one of them is leaning towards voting for you.

And so in order to save you and ensure Shasta's demise, I leap in and declare a filibuster, and proceed to post every two minutes on a specific topic until the deadline arrives.

By doing this I block that other rep from voting for you and Shasta is lynched instead.

Sound good?

Pfft. I can see already where this village is heading, phantom.

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by morm

Anyway, I was thinking that perhaps we should try to come to some consensus on how many representatives we would like to have. Would it be best to spread it around...I think the maximum would be 10 at this stage. Or would we like to keep it a little bit smaller around 4 or 5. I think 2 or 3 would be rather foolish at this stage and would limit some of the information we could gather later on when things become a bit clearer.

I think it's reasonable to have the number of reps proportional to the number of players. 1/3 of us would be 7 reps. Or 1/4 would be 5 or 6 reps. I don't think we should have any more or any less than that. Especially less...with less reps I think there is more room for error, particularly if one of those reps turned out to be a wolf. We should be careful not to spread the votes out too much. I know in previous Days half the village has received votes before. Of course those were votes to lynch, so the voting patterns here might turn out differently.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by morm

Anyway, I was thinking that perhaps we should try to come to some consensus on how many representatives we would like to have.

Seriously? Must we have a plan?

I figured we would simply let the chips fall where they may. Perhaps we'll end up with seven reps with two votes each, or maybe three reps with five votes each. Whatever. Why not just wing it?

[McCaber]

I'm here for the first day. How awesome is that? Very awesome.

Originally Posted by the phantom

If each person were to grant their voting power to the person above them on the list, no one would gain two votes. Thus there would be no voters for the second half. What would happen then? Random lynch? Nothing?

Interesting question. I would have to guess nothing would happen, much like in a state senate.

EDIT: crossed with the phantom

[mormegil]

Can somebody, *looks at the phantom* fill me in on exactly what the purpose of the fillibuster is? I'm not sure I understand the concept fully. I mean I get it in RL but I'm trying to make sense of it in our arena.

Anyway, I was thinking that perhaps we should try to come to some consensus on how many representatives we would like to have. Would it be best to spread it around...I think the maximum would be 10 at this stage. Or would we like to keep it a little bit smaller around 4 or 5. I think 2 or 3 would be rather foolish at this stage and would limit some of the information we could gather later on when things become a bit clearer.

[Ilya]

It all depends on how much weight we want the reps to have. A rep with 4 votes behind him/her apparently has more power than a rep with only two. So it's the Virginia plan versus the New Jersey plan all over again. If we decide consciously we want to have a smaller number of reps, we also better make sure we give them the same amount of weight, but then I'm a NJ girl from way back. Or, you know, wing it. That too.

As to the filibuster, it seems like it would either be the seer's province, or someone suspected trying to save themselves during the final voting phase. Of course, it suits the wolves best so it seems like it would be a rare thing.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by me

Why not just wing it?

Originally Posted by Ilya

Or, you know, wing it.

I like you already, Ilya.

[the phantom]

The more I think about it, the more I think we should not have any set target for number of reps. I mean, is that really the sort of government we want to set up here? Regulations, rules, must do this, must do that.... How about a little freedom?

Next thing you know we'll be ordering Gwath to give up his guns.

[mormegil]

Thank you tp for explaining that, it makes a lot of sense now. As far as having a plan, no we don't need one, but some of us like one. I would like some structure to our procedings.

I think, at least on Day 1, I am going to select somebody I have a history with and generally trust. There are sufficient candidates here that would meet my criteria of being somebody I trust and somebody who I think is accurate and critical. Boro, Diamond, Nog and tp would probably top that list. I fear that when I wake up int he morning I will be so innundated with posts I will have some difficulty catching up in this large of a village.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Fellow Villagers,

Have you noticed? Mr. Phantom is already testing his skills on filibustering. All we have seen until now is but the beginning. He was obviously trying, throughout the first page, whether he can manage it. We are lucky that he can do it only once. Of course, the filibustering may do good to our cause, if he is stopping the votes from going the wrong way. But, with all honesty, all he will do is that he will be stopping the votes from going the way that seems wrong for him. Thankfully, we have democracy here. But once he starts talking - if it is around the DL - it will be all only upon the people in the West. Us, Europeans, will be sleeping. But this is not just Americans, Europeans, Australians and whoever else may appear in this mixture - we are all one village! We are all Villagers! And it is only about us who stand against the threat of those lurking among us, who call themselves Villagers, but their intentions are hideous and abhorrent! And this is why there will be no Americans or Europeans for me, I won't just "let those behind the Sea eat this in the morning hours", I will stand by the side of those who prefer freedom of speech and freedom of vote without being restrained by some Phantom-a-likes.

Therefore,

++No Filibuster

Don't worry. I know it may be fun to have filibustering, and I say, all right. I am also for trying it some day. But not today. We need a smooth start, so that we can get the ship of state rolling. (Hm. An awkward formulation.)

And one thing to make it clear. Mr. P. is not getting my vote as a Representative, no way. He was even so daring to put these words of mine into his signature, which keeps showing all the thread long, because he cannot just keep his mouth shut. But we are all Villagers! We all have the right to speak, and not listen to just one demagogue, who would prefer to do filibuster every Day just after he votes, if only the Rules allowed it. Luckily for us, they don't.

It's been enough of self-nominated leaders, who vote only according to their own whims. It's been enough of demagogues, of amateurs whose votes more harmed the village than they helped it. Therefore, make your Representative somebody whom you can trust to make at least a honest decision. Who will not deceive you. I am not saying, vote this or that one. I am leaving this on your good reasoning, which I belive, most of you have. The Wolves may vote for their own Representative to get him there - if they are four, they can get two Representatives there by voting together. But that will be very risky. Yes, it is possible, if not probable, that a Wolf or two will get among the Representatives on the first Day with support of the villager's votes. I am not closing my eyes before it. And it is good, I say, yes. Because if a Wolf gets into the representation, he or she will have to choose. He could not stand behind and hide, but he would have to make a responsible decision. And this is where we can find them, catch them. And later, on the next Day, lynch them.

This is not saying, vote as Representatives those who seem wolfy to you. No way! Don't worry, they will get themselves in just "naturally". They don't need your help. But what I say is, do not judge the possibility of them becoming Representatives as only bad. It can serve us, even - for now. Of course, as the Days go by, we need to be more and more careful, for the less people, and the less Representatives, the more dangerous may the balance of power in the Council be. But for now, a good middle number of Representatives - let's say 5, 6 or such - would be enough to prevent the Wolves have too much power in the final voting, even if they got there (for I don't believe more than let's say two would get in there). But let each vote according to his own best conscience and reasons, and we will see how things are going to turn. From there, we can learn for the Days to come.

That is it, fellow Villagers. I am leaving for now, but will be back. Use the following six hours in good manner. And think about what is best for your Village.

[Boromir88]

Legate's ringing ye olde suspect alarm. Your attack against a filibuster just seems too creepy. I mean really all I'd expect is something like Diamond...No filibuster because it's silly. But you use it as a weapon of fear:

I will stand by the side of those who prefer freedom of speech and freedom of vote without being restrained by some Phantom-a-likes.

And one thing to make it clear. Mr. P. is not getting my vote as a Representative, no way.

Playing a part, or hiding behind your part, Legate?

[Boromir88]

Luckily Form hasn't graced us with his presense in this village, he'd have two day 1's to harp about.

Why so anxious for us to give the wolves ideas, Phantom?~Shasta

Let's see what our options are...either do what the phantom says, or we continue to play with and throw a bunch of bull crap at eachother (literal and figurative). I'd prefer the former.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Shasta

Why so anxious for us to give the wolves ideas, Phantom?

Because I'm the Cobbler! Mwu ha ha!

But seriously, I just want to know the lines that people are thinking along. It helps me get to know them.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Does it make more sense to set a different speed limit for every driver? Really?

Well maybe not for everyone, but they should at least have the decency to make a different one for me.

And Di- no filibuster? I never would've expected such an early stand on the issue from you.

Originally Posted by Di

Also, tp is a werewolf because it would amuse Fea to make him one.

Yeah, they always say that when I'm in one of Fea's games.

And guess what? It's never happened.

Just fyi, I was a WW in the last game I played. And in the game before that I was a Wizard. And it is possible that I requested specifically to be an Ordo in this village in hopes that it would cause the village to take up less of my time. Just food for thought.

Ah, Ka, quite right- I left the "s" off of that pronoun, didn't I? Won't happen again.

Originally Posted by Boro

Once you're set, aint nothing getting through that head of yours.

Yeah, yeah... I know. But often times that is good, as it keeps me from being led astray.

Originally Posted by Legate

all he will do is that he will be stopping the votes from going the way that seems wrong for him.

Yes, Legate, that's exactly what a filibuster is. Stopping things from going a way that you don't think is favorable. So the fact that I would use a filibuster for its precise purpose hardly seems like news worth reporting.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Boro

Legate's ringing ye olde suspect alarm.

Indeed.

You go in my good book for today, for thinking similarly.

Now- off to work. I'll be back in about five hours and should be around the rest of the day.

[Boromir88]

Yeah, yeah... I know. But often times that is good, as it keeps me from being led astray.~the phantom

I never said you didn't have a steel spine. When we need efficiency, and a tough choice, you execute and have the spine to face the Music. But sorry in a representative I don't want someone with their own mind, I want someone with my mind. If it just so happens that we follow the same path, well then you sir would be at the top of the list. Actually it would be more of just getting under Legate's skin and making enemies with 75% of my fellow congress people.

Before I forget...

++No filibuster

for me...realizing that we each only have one and I would hate to waste it. The temptation to be the first would be way too strong, I don't have the willpower of Gandalf to resist the urge. Or maybe I'm just not some washed up moral compass.

[Thinlómien]

Hello everybody.

Originally Posted by the phantom

Anyone have theories on the WW rep-voting behavior?

I think they might just lay low and vote innocents as representatives because it's more probable that a village lynches an innocent anyway.

Originally Posted by tp

Here's a question- who gets lynched if there are no reps to vote on the lynching?

I would like to second those who said "no one". It seems obvious to me.

Originally Posted by tp

The more I think about it, the more I think we should not have any set target for number of reps.

I agree with this. What purpose does a set number of representatives serve? No purpose that I can see.

Originally Posted by Legate

I know it may be fun to have filibustering, and I say, all right. I am also for trying it some day. But not today. We need a smooth start, so that we can get the ship of state rolling.

This is something I disagree with. If we really have to try filibustering, why not toDay when there's (probably) the least action and the smallest chance of lynching a wolf? It would do the least harm toDay, which is why I haven't voted against a filibuster yet. I don't like filibustering at all, I can't see it serving any purpose but chaos-creating (and maybe having fun, but we can have without an official filibuster, can't we?), but I understand it kind of has to be tried in this game, so I will let you children play with it today.

Just fyi, I was a WW in the last game I played. And in the game before that I was a Wizard. And it is possible that I requested specifically to be an Ordo in this village in hopes that it would cause the village to take up less of my time. Just food for thought.

Surely it's possible - I even recall you told me when we were wolves together that you'd have preferred to take it easy and be an ordo. But I don't like you bringing up this point at all. If you really did request so, it's rather unsporty of you to say it aloud. And if you didn't, that's a rather stupid trick. And at any rate, who says Fea would have fulfilled your request?

All in all, phantom makes me a little suspicious. He's too all over the place, he says some silly things and posts sometimes plain nonsense. Why?

Also, Diamond's overtly confident manner troubles me a little.

Others who have posted this far didn't ring any alarms on the first reading.


edit: xed with Borox2