Tears of Mirrormere Discussion Thread

[Durelin]

I will never ask anyone to hurry up! (I wonder why...) As far as I'm concerned, take your time writing your characters and finalizing things for the game...

I think more than just the warrior-types could be with Balin at the Mirromere, couldn't they? Obviously they are still wary of dangers, but there has been peace for a while, and Balin's purpose is simply to see it...couldn't others tag along because they want to see it, too?

On the other hand, I can see Balin and the leader-types, or the warrior-types, not allowing it all the same. I especially can see them not allowing the women...

And I suppose there is the simple limit that you can't have a whole bunch of dwarves following Balin around outside... So perhaps limiting it to a specific type - the 'military leaders' as you called them - is the best way to go, Groin, to keep it simple.

Anyway, just my bit. I'm fine with either way. I do think not all will go/be allowed to go with Balin, of course, and I'm sure those who aren't along will find plenty to do before all hell breaks loose.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I would agree with most of what Groin and Durelin said on the subject of following Balin, these "military leaders", and probably Balin's closest friends. Obviously, it will be also easier to get the events out there rolling just with the smaller number of Dwarves, there may be also need to send somebody to call upon reinforcements when it shows up that there is more Orcs than what is good for them etc., etc.... whatever the Mods also may have planned, for that matter.

And as for hurrying up, I am of course not pushing anybody to hurry hurry finish their character (I am actually surprised that the bios have been done so fast). Better to take your time and make your character the way you know you are really going to like him and know you would like to unfold his personality in this direction you set...

[Gwathagor]

I'm all for just a few dwarves going with Balin to the Mirrormere. Why does he choose that day to visit the pool?

[Durelin]

Originally Posted by Legate

And as for hurrying up, I am of course not pushing anybody to hurry hurry finish their character

I know you were just teasing.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

I'm all for just a few dwarves going with Balin to the Mirrormere. Why does he choose that day to visit the pool?

I have no idea, but is it not possible - as it's the tenth of November, which is close to the end of autumn - that it was the Durin's day for that year? That would make a lot of sense. I cannot look it up now, but in The Hobbit chapter 3 when Elrond reads the runes, Thorin explains what exactly Durin's day is and that it is something like the last day before winter when the moon shows in the sky during the day or something like that. If we could determine if it was possible that year to be the 10th Nov... but I find it probable.

[Gwathagor]

Yes, I was thinking it might be Durin's Day or something similar.

[Groin Redbeard]

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

Yes, I was thinking it might be Durin's Day or something similar.

Originally Posted by Legate

I have no idea, but is it not possible - as it's the tenth of November, which is close to the end of autumn - that it was the Durin's day for that year? That would make a lot of sense. I cannot look it up now, but in The Hobbit chapter 3 when Elrond reads the runes, Thorin explains what exactly Durin's day is and that it is something like the last day before winter when the moon shows in the sky during the day or something like that. If we could determine if it was possible that year to be the 10th Nov... but I find it probable.

Ah, you little mind readers you! I was just fancying the idea, that on the last day that the Dwarves are alive, in the Chamber of Marzabul, they see the moon and sun in the sky through the tunnel of light that focuses on Balin’s tomb. I forgot that we had some scholars in our midst, but I don’t think November 10th was Durin’s Day.

Holiday of the Dwarves, Durin's Day, occurred only when the Moon and the Sun were in the sky together on the Dwarves' New Year's Day - which was the first day of the last Moon of autumn. By the end of the Third Age, the Dwarves no longer had the ability to calculate when such a phenomenon would occur. According to my calculations, the Autumn in the northern hemisphere is assumed to start on the autumnal equinox, generally on September 22nd, the season runs until about December 21st. The first day of the last new moon of Autumn could thus take place any time between about November 22 and December 21.

That’s my two cents on the matter, though don’t take my word for it, I’m not entirely sure that I calculated correctly. However, as to Balin issuing from Moria to look upon Mirrormere I think that this was just an urge that he had. Years ago Durin looked upon Mirrormere and saw a crown of stars appear above his head in the reflection. The Dwarves set a pillar up to commemorate the spot on which these events occurred and it was here that Balin died (I hope I’m not preaching to the choir on this).

It is possible that Balin was going to give a speech of importance to his leaders and wanted a moment to meditate alone at the site on which their (meaning Durin’s Folk) greatest leader had had his inspiration to found the colony of Khazad-dum.

Anyway, your new character looks great Legate! I trust that this will be the Dwarf who will survive until the very end? Thanks for getting yours up too, Ilya, it looks grand! Kath, the pressure’s on!

P.S. Whoever want's to take up Loni or Nali as a secondary character better make up their mind quick. It looks like we are winding down here with the preparations.

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Groin Redbeard

It is possible that Balin was going to give a speech of importance to his leaders and wanted a moment to meditate alone at the site on which their (meaning Durin’s Folk) greatest leader had had his inspiration to found the colony of Khazad-dum.

Possible. He had been there for several years, though, so why then on that particular day? The dwarves were a fairly ritualistic race, and it seems at any rate possible that there was some specific reason for his visit to Mirrormere.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

First: Yay, your secondary character seems even better than I thought, Lommy. I say, great to have her there. (And as for me, yes, I did have to pick those names What's wrong with them? They are Dwarvish a lot!)

Second:

Originally Posted by Groin Redbeard

Holiday of the Dwarves, Durin's Day, occurred only when the Moon and the Sun were in the sky together on the Dwarves' New Year's Day - which was the first day of the last Moon of autumn. By the end of the Third Age, the Dwarves no longer had the ability to calculate when such a phenomenon would occur. According to my calculations, the Autumn in the northern hemisphere is assumed to start on the autumnal equinox, generally on September 22nd, the season runs until about December 21st. The first day of the last new moon of Autumn could thus take place any time between about November 22 and December 21

I cannot count at all and I did not count this by myself, but if that may be of any help to anyone (who could for example deduce something from it ):

On the year Bilbo came to Erebor (2841), Durin's Day was not later than on 30th October (according to Karen Wynn Fonstad's Atlas of Middle-Earth) - and certainly somewhat later than 9th October, when the Dwarves left the Lake-Town.

According to the Encyclopedia of Arda, "The first day of the Dwarves' year was calculated according to the last new moon of autumn (that is, the new moon that occurs within two weeks of 6 October, on a modern calendar)." That would be, according to the same website, 15th October in LotR calendar, which is the number relevant for us.
The page also shows the Durin's Days for the current time, and the dates shown are between 22 Sept - 18 Oct (in LotR counting that would be 13 Sept - 27 Oct).
(Does this seem curious to anyone? Just asking. But at least, the datum of Durin's Day in TH fits - very closely - the timeframe set here.)

So, I have no idea about this and all and I am saying only what I read from these resources: it seems that usually, Durin's Day would occur rather sometime during late October or such. And thus, not by the time we need it. Bah. Horrible, actually. (I shouldn't have started with that anyway.) I haven't even managed to think (by trying to switch the date of 10th November into various calendars ) of any trick how to make the date fit into the timeframe of our tale.

In any case, together with Gwath I would say that I am inclined to think there was some special reason for Balin to go to look into the Mirrormere on that particular day.