Who wrote...

[Alfirin]

I may be being dense, but exactly how could the elves have actually heard the verse? Sauron forged the ring at Orodruin, and I don't seem to recall anything about anyone else being there at the time with him. He may have been using the techniques he had shared with Celembrimbor, but the One ring was, as I recall forged in solitude. The elves could not have read the verse off the ring, as it's only visible when the ring is placed back in fire. There are only two possiblityies I can think of. Once is that the verse is actually a sort of charm or spell; when Sauron says it while wearing the ring it's what links the other rings in and that, intitally the spell had to be said in the presence of the other rings to bring them fully under the Master ring's control (i.e. Saron made the ring in Orodruin but then had to take it back to Eregion and say the spell to "link" the other rings in. The other possiblity is that it was read of the ring when Isildur had it, though this is less likely as it is doubful that he would had condescended to ever allow the ring to leave his presence and there would be no reason why he would trow it into a fire (though there is the possiblity that Sauron, in his "Great Warrior" body in fact emitted siginficant heat (which could explain the burned skin visible under the black armor) in which case the ring may have always been hot enough for the words to be visible.)

[Gordis]

I think the Elves (those who actually wore the Rings of power at the moment - and the Three and the Seven already had Elven owners) had indeed heard Sauron's binding Ring-spell all the way from Orodruin. Just by Ring-magic. The Ruling Ring, when wielded by Sauron, seems to be strongly connected with the other 19 and could, it seems, be used for broadcasting. Sauron, however, hardly intended this to happen - his mistake.

Remember that when Frodo put the Ruling Ring on and claimed it in Sammath Naur, Sauron was immediately aware of him. Perhaps partly it was due to the fact that Sauron at the moment had 12 rings in his possession?

[mark12_30]

Originally Posted by Alfirin

The other possiblity is that it was read of the ring when Isildur had it, though this is less likely as it is doubful that he would had condescended to ever allow the ring to leave his presence and there would be no reason why he would trow it into a fire (though there is the possiblity that Sauron, in his "Great Warrior" body in fact emitted siginficant heat (which could explain the burned skin visible under the black armor) in which case the ring may have always been hot enough for the words to be visible.)

In fact the text of The COuncil of Eldrond reads thus, in part:

‘But in that time also he made this scroll,’ said Gandalf; ‘and that is not remembered in Gondor, it would seem. For this scroll concerns the Ring, and thus wrote Isildur therein:

‘And after these words Isildur described the Ring, such as he found it.

‘When I read these words, my quest was ended. For the traced writing was indeed as Isildur guessed, in the tongue of Mordor and the servants of the Tower. And what was said therein was already known. For in the day that Sauron first put on the One, Celebrimbor, maker of the Three, was aware of him, and from afar he heard him speak these words, and so his evil purposes were revealed.

As far as exactly who wrote it... in the Shadow of the Past, Gandalf only says : 'It is only two lines of a verse long known in Elven-lore".

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by mark12_30

As far as exactly who wrote it... in the Shadow of the Past, Gandalf only says : 'It is only two lines of a verse long known in Elven-lore".

He also says:

Out of the Black Years come the words that the Smiths of Eregion heard, and knew that they had been betrayed:
One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, One Ring to bring them all and in the Darkness bind them.

So these two lines were exactly what the Mirdain had heard.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by mark12_30

As far as exactly who wrote it... in the Shadow of the Past, Gandalf only says : 'It is only two lines of a verse long known in Elven-lore".

But as the verse can't have pre-existed the Ring, those two lines must be by Sauron.

Equally, following Gordis' reasoning at #4, the rest must have been composed later.

So the entire poem would seem to have at least two authors, i.e. Sauron + unknown Elf (unless the part added later represents Sauron's Expanded Special Edition(tm)).

Hmmn. I'm not sure JRRT really thought this one out.

[Hookbill the Goomba]

Perhaps this is a case of a tale growing with time. The two lines inscribed on the Ring are certainly the oldest, but as more of the tale became known, it could well be that more verses were added. Indeed, I like to imagine there were a few stages the poem went through. Perhaps one focussed on the three elven rings against the One, then the Seven were added and finally the nine. It is not unknown for a tale told in poetry to grow and expand, especially in mythic tales.
Who knows?

[Gordis]

Strange thing about this verse....

The line about Men.

"Men" already implies "mortal". "Mortal men" is a bit of an overkill already. But "Mortal Men doomed to die" tells the same thing TRICE.

Why is this line so redundant? Especially considering that these particular nine men didn't die after all...

[Sardy]

Originally Posted by Gordis

Strange thing about this verse....

The line about Men.

"Men" already implies "mortal". "Mortal men" is a bit of an overkill already. But "Mortal Men doomed to die" tells the same thing TRICE.

Why is this line so redundant? Especially considering that these particular nine men didn't die after all...

That's a really intriguing point! I think that this redundancy offers a lot of potential insight as to who is the author(s) (in middle-Earth, not Tolkien) of the verse, as well as who is the intended audience.

Most likely, men wouldn't remind themselves of something so ingrained as their own mortality in a poem. The immortal elves, however, within their poetry very well may make use of the "artistic liberty" of redundently describing men as mortal, in a way poetically re-affirming their own immortality...

On the other hand, an audience of men may see the unnecessary pointing out of their mortality---and their "doom" as it were---by immortals as in poor taste, or an arrogance of the immortal poet(s)? Or perhaps, the mention of men "doomed to die" is an elven poet's attempt as empathizing the sadness of his mortal brethren...

Just some initial thoughts. But I do think that this redundancy that Gordis pointed out may be a key to understanding the natures of the storyteller(s) and listeners...