Tol-in-Gaurhoth LVII - Chess Game for Middle Earth: Game Thread

[the phantom]

About the lynch, there are a couple possibilities that spring easily to mind...

1) The White Queen's vote counts for more.

2) The White Queen is immune to the lynch and must be killed at night.

3) The White Queen cannot be killed on the first attempt.

Given that, I can't believe a certain someone is alive today. Do the WereCreatures really expect us to lynch in that direction.

[Mnemosyne]

I still think there's something to be said for the fact that those initial Izzy votes were all so spread out early in the day, and all apparently arrived at by people who had "reasoned independently" and came to the same conclusion at the same time.

We now know one of them was Nog, a known innocent.

As I said, I don't know what was going on, but I didn't like the look of it. And I still don't, despite the fact that Nog did vote her.

phantom, if the White Queen's vote counts for more than an innocent's, that Day One tie may be helpful to those who want to find out her identity. But as you said there are other possibilities.

[the phantom]

phantom, if the White Queen's vote counts for more than an innocent's, that Day One tie may be helpful to those who want to find out her identity.

Sure, unless it doesn't work like that all the time. Perhaps it's a one-time special ability.

[Mnemosyne]

Yeah... basically, we don't know and unless a miracle happens, won't find out till the end of the game. Better, IMO, to hunker down and get back to work. I'm still convinced there was at least one wolf in the group of Izzy voters. Coincidences like that don't happen.

[Mnemosyne]

Also, I hope Eonwe and Durelin are both back and in working order! We can't give silent players a free pass forever, even though they're having RL troubles.

I really can't wait till we've got a flood of more opinions out here. Recent events should result in a flowering of ideas, which I hope can be translated into evidence.

I really want to hear more from Fea, because I'm concerned about her actions yesterDay.

Hansy's reactions, given that he voted Nog first when Nog was nowhere in the running for a lynch, should be interesting.

Come to think of it, that whole Nog-in-second-place seemed to me, at least, to spring from nowhere! phantom voting him on a lark I can see, but it still don't look good.

Oh, and phantom, you're still alive. I'm starting to get worried.

[the phantom]

Good thoughts, Sally. Similar to some of the stuff than went through my head. Indeed, Izzy and Brin are the prime candidates in such a case. Oh, and maybe one other person. Can't think of the name... *snicker*

Originally Posted by Mnem

Oh, and phantom, you're still alive. I'm starting to get worried.

Given the situation here you ought to be.

[the phantom]

Anyway, I have really really got to nap a bit. I'm supposed to be waking up in less than four hours. (Third time in a row I'll be getting four hours or less. )

I'll look in briefly upon waking, and then I'll be around for the majority of the second half of the day.

EDIT: x-post Mnem, Lari

And that sounds like something a Wolf!phantom would say. Ai!

So you disagree? Think we shouldn't be worried at this stage, with every last Black piece still alive and only two White Royals left? A little fear is healthy, lassie. Motivation.

But now I must leave.

*zzzzzz*

[Mnemosyne]

Interestink thoughts, Sally.

Originally Posted by the phantom

Izzy went out to her lead early, so it's not as if her voters were reacting to anything (a threat to one of their pack-mates). The only person who ended up being threatened with the noose was Nog, and we know that he wasn't a WereWolf, so there was no compelling reason to vote Izzy over him. You certainly can't say it was because the Wolfpack suspected her of being Gifted, otherwise they would've eaten her last Night.

There are other reasons I can think of, and if I've learned one thing in this game it's that things are going on behind our back that we can't explain. Indeed, the non-reactionary nature of the Izzy votes was one of the things that raised the hairs on my neck. I can't say that all the votes were arrived at independently, since no player is an Island, but the reasoning behind them appeared independent (two process of elimination, which can easily be manipulated). I didn't suspect any of the voters (and continued not to suspect Nog) until I realized that they had all voted the same way without appearing to be bandwaggoners (which takes talent!).

Then again, I'm rather grasping at straws here. Anything which looks off is grounds for concern, regardless of the feelings I get about players, because I don't get any feelings about them other than "innocent" or "unknown," generally. It may not have been a Vast Wolvish Conspiracy, but that doesn't mean no one was involved.



Of course, Sally's vote looks odd, explanation or no.

[Mnemosyne]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Given the situation here you ought to be.

And that sounds like something a Wolf!phantom would say. Ai!

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Good thoughts, Sally. Similar to some of the stuff than went through my head. Indeed, Izzy and Brin are the prime candidates in such a case. Oh, and maybe one other person. Can't think of the name... *snicker*

Great minds....great minds....Now I just need another great mind to accompany my own. Any takers?

Hmmmm I'm gonna look at the voting records again and see what I can find. Brinn just jumped out at me because she's been alarming me for a bit and your suggestion made enormous amounts of sense. Wow. Who'd have thunk it?

Originally Posted by Mnemosyne

Of course, Sally's vote looks odd, explanation or no.

Well, quite frankly, I knew he was innocent. Now by 'know' I don't mean I knew with 100% certainty, because only the bishop(s) and the mod can know that and I am none of the above. I only mean that I had a heavy suspicion that he was innocent, and even an inkling that he could be gifted, though I obviously didn't want to say that and get him Night killed. So yesterDay, like the Day before, I made the best choice I could under the circumstances, the more valuable of two innocents rather than the lesser of two evils if you will.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Mnem

I still think there's something to be said for the fact that those initial Izzy votes were all so spread out early in the day, and all apparently arrived at by people who had "reasoned independently" and came to the same conclusion at the same time.

We now know one of them was Nog, a known innocent.

As I said, I don't know what was going on, but I didn't like the look of it. And I still don't, despite the fact that Nog did vote her.

I would agree with you if not for the fact that I'm liking Rikae, confident about Fea's goodness, and leaning towards Kath being a Goodie as well. But of course your leanings may be different than mine.

[the phantom]

Izzy went out to her lead early, so it's not as if her voters were reacting to anything (a threat to one of their pack-mates). The only person who ended up being threatened with the noose was Nog, and we know that he wasn't a WereWolf, so there was no compelling reason to vote Izzy over him. You certainly can't say it was because the Wolfpack suspected her of being Gifted, otherwise they would've eaten her last Night.

It may seem like it can't possibly be a coincidence, but I'm not seeing a reason why it shouldn't be one.

[satansaloser2005]

Well, I would just like to say that I thoroughly enjoy having my laptop back. It's so nice to not be on some rubbish machine from the Dark Ages, but instead to be on my lovely Hunter with his bright shiny screen and....oh, I dunno....working internet connection. I'm happy he's all better. It means I can at least attempt to play properly!


Sorry. Slight euphoria going on over here, that's all.


I'm again concerned by Brinn and Phantom's votes. Now I realize Phantom was being silly (and he did explain himself toDay) but that's two Days in a row in which Brinn has influenced the....oh my giddy aunt. Phantom may be right. And if anyone makes sense for the double vote power, it's her.

"Let me explain. No, there is too little time. Let me sum up."

I know I'm a bit thick but go with me on this one. Day One it was a tie between Gwath and Fea. Brinn put in her vote for Gwath at the last minute, and Gwath was the unfortunate loser of the tie. (What if it really wasn't a tie?) Day Two Izzy was technically ahead, but Brinn put in her vote for Noggie and he somehow managed to perish. (What if she pushed the vote into a tie?) I'm just saying. Shasta didn't mention a tie on the second Day, but if that's the case he wouldn't anyway, since it's a secret role.

Does that make sense to anyone else? Or should I don a white straitjacket and take Hunter to the happy home to post for the rest of the Day?


EDIT: x'd with Phantom

EDIT again: I kind of messed something up, so I had to sort of do the post over. Sorry if it's a tad different.

[Mnemosyne]

Originally Posted by Sally

Or should I don a white straitjacket and take Hunter to the happy home to post for the rest of the Day?

Sweetheart, Nerwen's dead.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Mnemosyne

Sweetheart, Nerwen's dead.

Never said she wasn't, love. What's your point?


Heh, yeah Izzy, I had the same reaction. To be honest, I'm really upset that Noggie got lynched instead of you, but happy you're still alive. Does that make sense?

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Now I realize Phantom was being silly (and he did explain himself toDay) but that's two Days in a row in which Brinn has influenced the....oh my giddy aunt. Phantom may be right. And if anyone makes sense for the double vote power, it's her.

If you think Brinniel is the WQ, which is what I surmise from your post, why are you talking about it openly?

Originally Posted by Mnemo

Nothing; just a bit of punnery. Under different circumstances that would've looked like a veiled reveal.

Either that or it was a veiled reveal. *mutters darkly*

Would anybody at all be surprised if Sally wasn't being wholly innocent in her flippant remarks?

---

Oh yeah-

Shasta:

++MITH

---

Originally Posted by Brinn

I think Sally was talking about her computer. Yes, apparently she has a name for her computer. Though strange that of all names, it is called Hunter...

Precisely. My computer is named Joe, and who would normally care? But if I was playing in a werewolf game where there was a role called 'Joe,' I wouldn't run around shouting about Joe unless I wanted people to notice and think about it.

Originally Posted by Rikae

why on earth is everyone suddenly treating Izzy as if she is some sort of known innocent?

I'm not. I landed on her through process of elimination, fair and square, and nothing has happened since I voted for her to make me think she's squeaky clean. So while I'm perfectly willing to change my vote if I run into a better one, she's still fair game. I think it's downright strange how she escaped the noose.

*watches people in the library boredly*

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Upon reflection, my last post seems more grouchy than usual. I apologize for its tone, and beg understanding of my idiot body's inability to function without real food at frequent intervals. I shouldn't post at all until after balanced meals.

[Durelin]

Okay, here is what I was typing up yesterDay to post when my *insert expletives here* internet died on me...

Originally Posted by ME

So, here are some random suspicion lists I came up with while showering:

Possible Baddies:
Lariren - Seems generally defensive
the phantom - I think he's being subtly bold. Kath said "he's too laid back, too not involved to be something important" and that's basically why I suspect him a bit. I think the manipulating will come when it needs to, and otherwise he's playing it cool. But what does that mean? Not sure.
Izzy -
Mnemosyne - She seems like the perfect grizzly. I have no idea why.

In the middle leaning towards baddie:
Brinniel
Eonwe
Mirandir

Probable Innocents:
Fea - I think.
Kath - She is the same Kath as always, whether good or bad, except a little flippant, so I think she's good.
Nogrod - As Fea described him as "obsessive," I think he's innocent. I think he plays it more smoothly and less on emotion when bad. Though actually I think he would be a good cobbler candidate.

Have no idea:
Sally
wilwa
Hansy

So yeah. I echo Fea. Nogrod?! And phantom, I have never seen more of a BS explanation for a vote.

Remember how I said the manipulating would come? Well look what happened yesterDay!

++the phantom

Even if I'm wrong, and he's not a werecreature, he deserves it for all this saving people nonsense.

I guess I wouldn't mind seeing Sally go at this point, either, but I like her more. And (fiiine, I'll give a legitimate reason here) I feel more certain at this point about phantom.

I have to go to class soon so I will explain/argue more my points about phantom later, promise. Hopefully not too much later.

[Hansy]

Most of this stuff is taken out of Day 2, maybe I've mixed some ideas in, but at this moment that's what I've analyzed. If it doesn't take too long, I'm re-reading Day 3 today, but I don't think it's happening.

Durelin - Right now, who I'm more confident of their innocence. Seems the most sincere to me.
Feanor of the Peredhil - For someone as strong-minded as her, getting a vote from narrowing down the player list is kind of strange... she didn't stand out anymore, that adds to my suspicions.
Isabellkya - I'd still go innocent for her; she's usually more agressive when she plays evil. So I like the general smooth appearance of her.
the phantom & Brinniel - Seeing them both involved on Gwath's and Nogrod's lynches, they barely interacted with each other, I'd think this is a good shot on a evil duo... You could throw in Fea here, maybe Day 1's occurance was meant to make her look worse, I don't know.
satansaloser2005 - She's playing it different than last game; I can't relate her with anyone, but I can't stop thinking she's evil. Add Eomer's death, you have your Black Queen. Do us all a favor and kill that black bishop/rook tonight. If you don't, they'll outnumber everyone soon anyway, giving you no room.
Lariren Shadow - Went back from "probably innocent" to "I have no idea". Her posts weren't conclusive enough for me, they were giving mixed impressions.
wilwarin538 - When she posted her list on day 2 I agreed with most of her points, from what I've seen I'm not worried so far, if she's a wolf it's playing the backup member or something.
Rikae - Her reasoning is, well, reasonable all the time. I don't know how she plays evil, but this Rikae looks more or less like the innocent Rikae from last game.
Eonwe - Just didn't see enough, though I remember him raising my eyebrow on Day 1.
Mnemosyne - Now I'm starting to worry about her.. when Izzy asked her about the "Who're we killing today?" bit she said right after Night 2, it could be taken as a cobbler hinting to the wolves.
Kath - Nothing stands out from what I've seen, really. Overall innocent feeling.

So, summary:

More Evil: TP, Sally
Less Evil: Nemo, Brinn
I don't know: Eonwe, Fea, Lari
Less Innocent: Kath, Izzy
More Innocent: Durelin, Rikae, Wilva

++The Phantom

[satansaloser2005]

Hansy's analysis of a few people, put in italics, followed by my reaction in regular type. Does not necessarily reflect my opinion of the players he's analyzing, but rather my comment on his logic. Thanks for listening, and enjoy my post.


Durelin - Right now, who I'm more confident of their innocence. Seems the most sincere to me.

Just to point it out for you, Durie's a girl. Just so you know. She does indeed seem sincere, but just because she seems sincere and kind doesn't mean she's innocent, so keep that in mind.

Feanor of the Peredhil - For someone as strong-minded as her, getting a vote from narrowing down the player list is kind of strange... she didn't stand out anymore, that adds to my suspicions.

So Fea's not Fea enough for you? Erm....okay? So she's not allowed to be logical now, I see. Thanks for clearing that up. Don't worry, Fea, we all still love you, even if you go sane on us.

Isabellkya - I'd still go innocent for her; she's usually more agressive when she plays evil. So I like the general smooth appearance of her.

But players change styles, so saying that she is acting normally is saying nothing, especially for a good player like Izzy.

the phantom & Brinniel - Seeing them both involved on Gwath's and Nogrod's lynches, they barely interacted with each other, I'd think this is a good shot on a evil duo... You could throw in Fea here, maybe Day 1's occurance was meant to make her look worse, I don't know.

I won't really disagree with this, but both of them voting for the same people doesn't mean they're on the evil team together. Maybe a bishop/rook and a cobbler, Queen and cobbler, or Queen and bishop/rook, but Brinn and Phantom are, at least in my opinion, too smooth to be that obvious, especially when they could have let Fea die (I know Brinn's cool with throwing her packmates under the bus and I'm sure Phantom would be too, which of course isn't to speak ill of them) and gone on about their business.

satansaloser2005 - She's playing it different than last game; I can't relate her with anyone, but I can't stop thinking she's evil. Add Eomer's death, you have your Black Queen. Do us all a favor and kill that black bishop/rook tonight. If you don't, they'll outnumber everyone soon anyway, giving you no room.

Now I don't mind being suspected, but this is rather silly. Hun, of course I am playing differently from last game. Last game I was evil, this game I'm not. And how does Eomer's death implicate me? I mean yes, he voted me, but believe me, I'm rarely that transparent with my kills. Besides, I would rather have taken out other players of whom I was afraid, or whom I thought would be a good no-trace kill. Eomer's not my kill style (not that you'll believe me, of course, and I wouldn't expect you to) so his death tells you nothing. However, I'd love to help you get rid of the black bishop or black rook. Even the Queen, if I can manage it. Just give me a bit more time and I can guarantee I'll be able to help the village.

Lariren Shadow - Went back from "probably innocent" to "I have no idea". Her posts weren't conclusive enough for me, they were giving mixed impressions.

Okay....not much to say if he doesn't have anything really to say.

wilwarin538 - When she posted her list on day 2 I agreed with most of her points, from what I've seen I'm not worried so far, if she's a wolf it's playing the backup member or something.

Or she's playing it carefully. Remember that a good wolf knows who to suspect in order to look good, if that makes any sense at all, and just because you agree with someone doesn't mean they're innocent.

Rikae - Her reasoning is, well, reasonable all the time. I don't know how she plays evil, but this Rikae looks more or less like the innocent Rikae from last game.

Dude, a reasonable Rikae is an evil Rikae. They're all evil Rikaes. Seriously though, Rikae's always fairly reasonable, at least in her arguments, even if she acts like a complete whackjob.

Eonwe - Just didn't see enough, though I remember him raising my eyebrow on Day 1.

Understandable. He's not been around a whole lot.

Mnemosyne - Now I'm starting to worry about her.. when Izzy asked her about the "Who're we killing today?" bit she said right after Night 2, it could be taken as a cobbler hinting to the wolves.

Doubtful. Mnemo's just playful like that. She could be evil in some form, but I doubt that would be one of the indicators of her role.

Kath - Nothing stands out from what I've seen, really. Overall innocent feeling.

Again, nothing really said, so nothing to say.

Originally Posted by Hansy

++The Phantom

Bwah?!!?!?!?!??


EDIT: x'd since my last

[satansaloser2005]

I wouldn't be happy about it, but if it would relieve the tie situation I suppose I could switch to Brinn. However, Hansy is my first priority so I'd have to be more convinced about her guilt (and have a guarantee that she would 'win' the lynch) before I would retract and vote her. Basically it's not going to happen, but like I said, I freaking hate ties.

[satansaloser2005]

Hansy 3
Phantom, Izzy, and Sally 2 each

[Isabellkya]

I wont vote for phantom.
I can't bring myself to vote for Hansy, because I don't find anything about him suspicious; and voting for him would feel really wrong.

So, that leaves..
++Sally.
Sorry.I feel less wrong voting you than I do the others.

X'd since Mnemosyne's #572

[Mnemosyne]

Yet to vote:

Isabellkya
the phantom
Brinniel
Lariren Shadow
Mnemosyne

Unless someone wants to push another candidate, it looks as if I'll have to limit my votes to the people who have already got them.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Mnem

Unless someone wants to push another candidate

Durelin! I must have my vengeance!

[Mnemosyne]

Make your case, phantom.

For some reason I really want to vote Brin, but first I'd have to analyze her.

I'm just not incredibly thrilled with any of the vote candidates... Now that you've gotten off your spec-fest (and I can understand innocent!phantom's reasoning) I'm willing to let you live another day.

Sally I've already explained why I don't want to vote for.

Hansy... eh. I don't feel great about him, especially because a lot of people have done the whole "I suspect him but he's a n00b" sort of thing and by Day 3 that shouldn't matter (heck, didn't matter for me).

And Izzy I'm willing to reprieve until we find out more information about yesterDay (if there's ever a reveal that will let us. But I won't wait forever).

[Rikae]

I would prefer to see Sally or Hansy lynched than tp, if it comes down to that.

[Mnemosyne]

Okay, Rikae, here we go. I am not saying that this is what Sally is, but it's certainly what she's claiming to be.

First of all, keep in mind that all this madness only started on Day Three:

Originally Posted by sally

Does that make sense to anyone else? Or should I don a white straitjacket and take Hunter to the happy home to post for the rest of the Day?

To which I said,

Originally Posted by me

Sweetheart, Nerwen's dead.

To which sally said,

Originally Posted by sally

Never said she wasn't, love. What's your point?

To which I said,

Originally Posted by me

Nothing; just a bit of punnery. Under different circumstances that would've looked like a veiled reveal.

To which sally said,

Originally Posted by sally

Pfffft. Do you really think I'd be that obvious?

And now Sally's claiming she's being obvious.

Later on, when Steve asks Sally if she's the black pawn, she says,

Originally Posted by sally

EDIT: Yes as in I'm playing riskily, not yes I'm the Black Pawn. I am a white girl and proud of it, kthnxbye. (And no, that was not meant to be racist, just in case anyone wondered.)

This goes in accordance with her earlier stating that she was innocent. But she no longer says that she's a pure, role-less innocent.

Her next quote is

Well said, Kath. Besides, I'm not the Black Pawn. Or the Black Anything, for that matter. Killing me, or at least killing me toDay, would be a grave mistake. If you must kill me kill me after I've had a Night to think about the game, perhaps make some choices that will impact the village for the good.

What really tipped me off as to what she's been trying to convey is this quote, here:

I am not the White Bishop. I will at no point be saying that I am the White Bishop, the White Queen, or any black piece, for I am none of them.

Thank you for your time. Please try again.

She only mentions those white gifteds which are still in the game, which is completely logical. At the same time, that leaves open white pieces that have already been killed. As she says at the end of the day,

Originally Posted by sally

I miss Nerwen

I have no idea what sally actually is, but she seems to be saying that she's a second hunter, probably hunterified during Night Three because Shasta is weird. And she also seems to be implying by her "we'll know x if I'm killed" that she's a logical hunter.

And since I'm willing to believe that Kath dreamed sally Night Three, that implies that she's at the worst a cobbler.

Rikae, you are NOT making this look good for yourself. I want to believe you so badly, but you're not.

...And she just said "for the love of Orion." THE HUNTER. THE FREAKING HUNTER.

So that is who Sally says she is.

...Right, sally?


...Right?







*crickets chirp*

[satansaloser2005]

[Mnemosyne]

...In case you're wondering, that's my sally-analysis/crack theory.

That's right, folks, she's claiming to have a role that doesn't exist.

So either she's a cobbler (whom we ignore and don't kill) or she's an innocent playing with our minds or she's telling the truth.

So, Rikae, if you're correct and not a cobbler/wolf/bear, let's just give sally the benefit of the doubt and get rid of Izzy toDay.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Mnemosyne

I still think there's something to be said for the fact that those initial Izzy votes were all so spread out early in the day, and all apparently arrived at by people who had "reasoned independently" and came to the same conclusion at the same time.

We now know one of them was Nog, a known innocent.

As I said, I don't know what was going on, but I didn't like the look of it. And I still don't, despite the fact that Nog did vote her.

Just because one person's innocent it doesn't mean they all are. In fact, it's more likely that one of the baddie's jumped on an innocent bandwaggon (and I mean ordos, as opposed to a bandwaggon being an innocent thing to to do- however, in the end it is the only way that someone gets lynched, and now I will end this extremely long sentence and bracket).

Originally Posted by the phantom

2) The White Queen is immune to the lynch and must be killed at night.

It might also be the otherr way around. Or maybe xe (are we still doing this?) can use someone else as a shield (who happened to be protected?)- maybe that last one's a little far-fetched.

[QUOTE=Mnemosyne;586541]Also, I hope Eonwe and Durelin are both back and in working order! We can't give silent players a free pass forever, even though they're having RL troubles.[QUOTE]
Well, I'm back.
Yes sir, I am. My head's still a little fuzzy, but I'll see what I can do.


PS. Sally, is it just me or are you playing a little riskily (and I don't mean for yourself)?- Or are you the Black Pawn?

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Steve

PS. Sally, is it just me or are you playing a little riskily (and I don't mean for yourself)?- Or are you the Black Pawn?

Yes, love, but don't worry. There's a reason for it. You know me, I like to cause enough stir that it tells me what I want to know.


EDIT: Yes as in I'm playing riskily, not yes I'm the Black Pawn. I am a white girl and proud of it, kthnxbye. (And no, that was not meant to be racist, just in case anyone wondered.)