Can anything good come from Men?

[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by Elmo

Yep whatever else can be said about He Who Arises In Might at least he got things done unlike his generally lazy brethren.

The same could be said for Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, Mugabi, and bin Laden.

[Elmo]

Maybe not Mussolini, he was pretty fat.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Well, the North = Evil, contrasted with Northern Men = Good, was I think something of an accidental artifact of the development of Tolkien's geography. As he shaped the Third Age and its lands, necessarily it had to spread out east and south of Lindon/ancient Ossiriand, because north and west were taken. But the strain of 'goodness'; ie Eldar and Edain, were firmly associated with Beleriand and therefore what became the northwest corner of the inhabitable lands. Once you've postulated that Goodness maintained itself in Lindon and its eastern outpost Rivendell, and that the Edain's kin lived along their line of march east of the Ered Luin, then you wind up with the native Edainic Men and the returning Dunedain so situated.

(Of course, T was also 'calquing' upon Europe, where the barbarian waves have always flooded in from the limitless east and to a lesser extent the south. Vikings of course don't count, in Tolkien's mind)

I also think it may be true that [Elves] were by nature better disposed to be "good",

Remember, it was an essential ingredient in Tolkien's conception that Men had 'fallen', whereas Elves were unfallen. Men were tainted with Original Sin, while Elves were not: what this means is not that Elves were incapable of wickedness (duh); but rather that Men from the time of their subversion by Satan/Melkor are particularly susceptible to the temptations of evil; that it takes an effort of will for Men to be good.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

Remember, it was an essential ingredient in Tolkien's conception that Men had 'fallen', whereas Elves were unfallen.

But does this include the Noldor? Weren't they essentially
"fallen" by taking the Oath of Feanor and refusing to
renounce it before leaving Aman? Btw an interesting
analogy would make Melkor=the Garden of Eden snake
and Feanor=both Adam and Eve (which would no doubt have pleased his
humongous ego.

[littlemanpoet]

Such an Oath as Feanor spoke did in fact mean that he and his sons Fell. Any who made themselves part of that Oath may likewise be considered to have Fallen. So yes. On the other hand, you have Finrod Felagund and Fingolfin who did not make themselves part of the Oath, but took upon themselves the ban of the Oath out of loyalty to their kin. Very sacrificial and noble, but just as deterministic (since that's what oaths do) to their eventual demise.

[Selador]

I agree with littlemanpoet. The Elves too fall. I think to Tolkien's mind, every story entailed some kind of fall. In the First Age, Fëanor's possessiveness precipitates the fall of the Noldor. They fall from peace and contentment (which is their nature) to belligerence and woe. The Elves fall again after the defeat of Melkor, for they now find that they are not perfectly content to have kingdoms in a corrupted, always decaying Middle-earth. They fall to the temptation to make the Rings of Power in an attempt to make Middle-earth more like Aman. But this is against the will of Eru.

Notice, however, that in both cases, the fall of the Elves is due to the influence of Melkor. It was Melkor who stole the Silmarilli, and it was Melkor who corrupted the fabric of Middle-earth and introduced decay. So Melkor is responsible not only for the fall of Men, but also for the fall of the Elves, just in different ways. And these falls both proceed from Melkor's own fall - his rebellion against Eru's supreme authority.

With the Elves he corrupts their ability to find peace and contentment in Arda. With Men, he corrupts their ability to find peace and contentment beyond Arda (which is their nature, as the "visitors").