Garrison for the Rammas Echor

[Kent2010]

As it was, they now got the Bridge leading into the abandoned Ithilien (built a bridge for Sauron, so to say) and the Rammas that couldn't really guard Minas Tirith. Not too smart, precious...
-Gordis

I think that's a slight misrepresentation of Gondor's strategy. In June 3018, Sauron drove Gondor out of Ithilien and they held Osgiliath as long as possible:

...But this very year, in the days of June, sudden war came upon us out of Mordor, and we were swept away.
...
Some said that it could be seen, like a great black horseman, a dark shadow under the moon. Wherever he came madness filled our foes, but fear bell on our boldest, so that horse and man gave way and fled. Only a remnant of our eastern force came back, destroying the last bridge that still stood amid the ruins of Osgiliath.
-The Council of Elrond

It's not like they just rebuilt a bridge so Sauron could have a free pass until he runs into a wall - a wall that was "useless." There were several levels of defense.

They held Osgiliath as long as possible, and wisely destroyed all the bridges. When Sauron decides he can and will cross, the Rammas Echor is just another significant obstacle for Sauron to get through. If anything Gandalf criticized Denethor for not finishing the wall soon enough and not calling in the armies sooner:

'Because I come seldom but when my help is needed,' answered Gandalf. 'And as for counsel, to you I would say that you are over-late in repairing the wall of the Pelennor. Courage will now be your best defence against the storm that is at hand - that and such hope as I bring. For not all the tidings that I bring are evil. But leave your trowels and sharpen your swords!'
-Minas Tirith

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by Kent2010

I think that's a slight misrepresentation of Gondor's strategy. In June 3018, Sauron drove Gondor out of Ithilien and they held Osgiliath as long as possible:

No, Kent, I believe you have misunderstood me. I was speaking not of 3018, but of the time when the Bridge had been rebuilt.

Let me explain again. The exact quotes are in my previous post.

We know that the Rammas was built after Gondor had lost Ithilien (my first quote). It couldn't have happened in 3018, as you say - by this time Ithilien was already long lost (except for the secret Henneth Annun) and the Rammas was already old and ruined and needed repairs.
According to the Tale of Years "Most of the remaining inhabitants of Ithilien desert it " in 2901. I think the Rammas was built then.

The bridge over the Anduin had been destroyed in 2475 (TY) and rebuilt "in the days of the youth of Denethor"(LOTR text). That would be 2930-2950. I think if the Rammas had been started in 2901, it would be completed around 2030-2040 - at the same time when the Bridge was rebuilt.
I think these events were linked: the Gondorians thought it safe to rebuild the Bridge because they now had the Rammas.
I may be wrong, but the dates seem to fit and there is some logic here.

Note that all these building projects happened BEFORE Sauron returned and declared himself officially in Mordor (2951). Before that, when only the Nazgul in Minas Morgul opposed Gondor, the war was slowly smoldering, but never any large-scale assault on Minas Tirith from Minas Morgul had been attempted.

It's not like they just rebuilt a bridge so Sauron could have a free pass until he runs into a wall - a wall that was "useless." There were several levels of defense.

It was not their intention, certainly - but when Sauron returned shortly after the bridge had been completed they must have realised their mistake. Yet they left the Bridge standing.

They held Osgiliath as long as possible, and wisely destroyed all the bridges. When Sauron decides he can and will cross, the Rammas Echor is just another significant obstacle for Sauron to get through.

Now what happened in June 3018? Sauron sent the Witch-King to attack the bridge of Osgiliath - and the bridge was obviously taken and held for some time (that enabled the Nazgul to cross the river.) Later, when the nazgul were gone and Mordor's objective accomplished, Gondor was able to rally and destroy the Bridge.

It was very fortunate for Gondor that this time Sauron employed only a fraction of his force without intention to attack Minas Tirith straight away with all his might. If he made his major stroke in June 3018, the Gondorians wouldn't have been able to destroy the bridge and Mordor's army would have been at the Gates of Minas Tirith very fast. The city would have likely been taken before the aid from Rohan could arrive.

If anything Gandalf criticized Denethor for not finishing the wall soon enough and not calling in the armies sooner:

I think Gandalf meant that now Denethor was only wasting time and effort on the Rammas. Rammas wouldn't help him now.

[Findegil]

Is it not always the case, that a outerdefense is supposed to be attackable to a greater degree then the main defense?

The Pelenor was not supposed to fend of a fullscale attack for ever. For that task Minas Tirith had a Wall. It was supposed to hold an enmy from some time and let the attacker pay for the crossing in greater numbers then the defenders to hold it that time. And in addition it was usefull in any smaller attacks.

When we consider how time critical the defense of Minas Tirith became in the end, I can only say that the hours that Faramir gained, saved the city.

Respectfully
Findegil

[Aelfwine]

With respect to he Rammas, the use of walls as a means of defense was a traditional tactic throughout history. The distance between the Rammas and the city is very unusual, but the sheer size of the Rammas is in keeping with the monolithic construction typical to Gondorians. I agree with Mark that the primary purpose was not (or should not have been) defense against invasion, but rather more generalized protection. I also agree that to attempt to hold the Rammas against Sauron's army was folly. It is not defensible in that sense.

The timing of the rebuilding of the bridge and its correspondence with the construction of the Rammas was likely coincidence. If the Rammas was intended as defense against invasion, which it probably wasn't, the reason was the fact that Gondor's population had fallen to the point where it needed something other than manpower to help. Becuase I believe that the people of Gondor did not have any confidence in the Rammas as a true mechanism of defense, I similarly do not believe that the rebuilding of the bridge was the product of such confidence. The bridge of Osgiliath was not directly defense-related. Rather it served the need to provide necessary and easy access to the east bank of Anduin for the citizens and military of Gondor.

[Kuruharan]

This might be a question worthy of its own thread...

Gondor's population had fallen to the point where it needed something other than manpower to help

Was the population of Gondor as a whole reduced to such levels or was it mainly in the regions around Minas Tirith that suffered the most depopulation?

I was always sort of under the impression that the population of Gondor was more concentrated in the hinterlands and the Numenorian lineages (which would naturally have been concentrated around the centers of power) were the ones that were dying out.

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

This might be a question worthy of its own thread...

Was the population of Gondor as a whole reduced to such levels or was it mainly in the regions around Minas Tirith that suffered the most depopulation?

I was always sort of under the impression that the population of Gondor was more concentrated in the hinterlands and the Numenorian lineages (which would naturally have been concentrated around the centers of power) were the ones that were dying out.

I think Gondor as a whole had not suffered a decrease in population: it were mainly the lands bordering on Mordor: Ithilien (first and foremost), Anorien and Minas Tirith.
It seems people who had means to do so progressively abandoned Minas Tirith to settle on the other side of the mountains, in south-western Gondor. It was far more pleasant (ah, roses of Imloth Melui!) and peaceful land.

[Aelfwine]

Was the population of Gondor as a whole reduced to such levels or was it mainly in the regions around Minas Tirith that suffered the most depopulation?

Fine question Kuruharan and well met Gordis!

I will assume the construction of the Rammas to be after 2901 per your post, Gordis. The War of the Ring was 3019. By 3019, Minas Tirith was perhaps at 1/2 occupancy based upon the descriptions in LoTR. What about the rest of Gondor?

Let's see... (gotta love them appendices). During the reign of Telemnar (1636) we have the Great Plague then the Wainriders invade in 1851 (during which time Gondor loses its eastern territories. Minas Ithil is beseiged in 2000. In 2475 the attacks of Mordor upon Gondor are renewed and Osgiliath is ruined. In 2758 the Corsairs again attack Gondor. In 2901 most remaining inhabitants of Ithilien abandon that land under heavier attacks from Mordor. In preparation for the siege of Minas Tirith, troops from the outlying lands of Gondor are summoned and march into the City under Pippin's watchful eye, "but always too few, always less than hope looked for or need asked."

Yes, the outlying lands had to prepare for attack as well, but Gondor clearly had undergone a great reduction in population over the centuries. Clearly the Numenoreans themselves were affected the most, but I doubt it could be said that the fading of Gondor was limited to Minas Tirith. And most of the diminution in population seems to result from events at or prior to 2901 when Gordis believes the Rammas was begun.