WW LX - Mortal Men, doomed to die

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

1) Mentions no-one.

2) Thinks Nogrod should be fairer on her but no big deal really.

3) Thinks that people should lay off Nogrod.

4) Her list post:

She has a good feeling about yous truly, Eomer.

She has a bad feeling about Shasta.

5) Asks for vote tally.

6) Votes Isabellkya, finding her last post suspicious. Here's Izzy's post:

A three way tie. I'm tempted to leave it this way.
Because tie's are always fun to watch get rolled.

Then it would be a more random Day one lynching.

Now, don't jump on me for saying this, but the only way the Wraiths think she was the Seer is because she listed everyone and said that she has a good feeling about precisely one of them: and that's Eomer. I don't consider her bad feeling about Shasta to indicate Seer-dom because it was a straight-forward vote-based criticism that anyone could have made.

Now, I always think of finding the Seer first so those are my first thoughts. It could just be that she leaves no trail whatsoever, but I'm never sure Wraiths would kill like that.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

All right, so basically Kath has said really nothing much, except replying to Nogrod once or twice and voting, and only in her post #103 she says something about everyone - but it seems to me that not to much conclusions. She more or less rather states on who is doing what, but does not make many conclusions - it seems also that she's been in a hurry to vote before DL yet, so she could not elaborate more. Anyway, my opinion after going through this and thinking about it would be indeed that she was picked to leave no tracks. Can't think of anything better.

[Eönwë]

Kath?

Now the only reason I can think of her death is, as has already been stated, that she hasn't left any strong trails (I'm going to reread her posts after this just in case). She also doesn't seem to have stood out too much in Day 1, at least to my mind, which would probably make her a typical Night 1 kill.

This most upsetting, because not only was she one of us innocents, but she was also the only one who came from my far country.

Hmm.... what have you others who have not shown your faces to say to this horrendous murder?

edit: x-ed with Legate

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Kent2010

My other question (for everyone to start the day), what is with the multiple people saying "If I live," "If I stay alive...," or similar words?

In post 39 Brinn says "shall I survive..."
Shasta in 42 says"If I live..." and promises to do more today
wilwarin in 51 says "If I make it"
and
Izzy in 86 said "If I am still alive..."

Izzy turned out to be a known innocent, but Ijust don't like these types of phrases, because it just seems unecessary, or at least unnecessary at this point of the game. If the person who says it is a wolf, it looks like a clever way to protect yourself from a lynch because it reads as "I am going to do more tomorrow, and see I am already thinking ahead...IF I survive!" I am curious to what others think about this, maybe it's just that I still don't know the 'lingo,' or is it something more evil?

Well, Kent, my personal opinion would be that it is a bit of a slang and people sometimes say it (even I know I did in some games) - however it is true that one can never know, as it might be used by a Wraith to sort of try to seem "oh, I just hope they won't kill me toNight" - well of course they won't, when it's one of them...

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

Now, don't jump on me for saying this, but the only way the Wraiths think she was the Seer is because she listed everyone and said that she has a good feeling about precisely one of them: and that's Eomer. I don't consider her bad feeling about Shasta to indicate Seer-dom because it was a straight-forward vote-based criticism that anyone could have made.

Now, I always think of finding the Seer first so those are my first thoughts. It could just be that she leaves no trail whatsoever, but I'm never sure Wraiths would kill like that.

Okay, that sounds a bit too far-fetched to me, in my opinion. Kath's list seems more unclear than clear to me, although it is possible that the Wraiths have thought in such a way as you write, but in my opinion that's quite complicated thought. Mainly, it presupposes one thing - that you are innocent, and also that the Wraiths would think the way you do. Unless you are using this yourself to make us (in a rather complicated way) believe that you are innocent while you are Wraith, I won't give it much credit, personally. It does not make much sense to me to say that (even if you were a Wraith, because it is so complicated...).

Anyway, I will be here just for a while now probably and then go to sleep... so see you in some time then, probably.

[Nogrod]

I have an early morning call tomorrow so I will just make a few points now. I'll be back later on toDay.

About Kath.

She really was more active on Day1 like in ages (she normally posts once or not at all on Day1 and then explains on Day2 she had forgotten / had other stuff / was late etc. - I mean that for real: she has done that like twenty times, it's her tactics of getting through Day1's). So that sudden activity yesterDay made me think she could be a ringwraith... which she most clearly wasn't. But if the baddies thought along the same lines then this is the result; as she was no baddie then they thought she was a gifted of some sort willing to play more actively for that (not to be lynched fex.).

Her posts don't look too seerish to me unless Eomer is one of the culprits - which he of course has neatly tried to counter already toDay. But they might have thought her any gifted - and as people have said, there's not too much a track her death will leave. So a reasonable kill from the baddie's point of view.


About Sally.

I still have a bad feeling about her due to her actions yesterDay and her first post toDay doesn't make her look any less suspicious. On the contrary. The half playful tone of the lament feels false and looks foul.


About Rune.

Anyway Rune manages to be my top suspect right now with a slight margin over Sally.

Now there's nothing bad in one getting back to posting before the DL after one has said he has no possibility for that and has therefore voted early. No problem with that. No problem whatsoever (eg. this is no sarcasm but a plain fact). It's good people can get back and try to help in the voting-process even if they have themselves voted already in a game of no retractions.

But what did Rune actually do there in the end of the Day? Well he defended himself - even if no one had made any strong suspicions on him or none was actually entertaining the idea of lynching him (except for Kent that is).

And then like twenty minutes before the deadline, with all the hair-raising last minute hassle to come, he just backs away never to show his face anymore on that Day.

That is the blunder the wolves (and cobblers) do time and time again: when the lynch is going nicely from their POV they just lean back and relax - and try to be careful not to mess with anything controversial in the end of the Day. But that non-involvement is exactly the thing that betrays them. It has not been just once or twice this has happened. And this looks like a case straight out from the "Werewolf-handbook of catching the villains".

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Actually, hey, Eomer...

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

4) Her list post:

She has a good feeling about yous truly, Eomer.

She has a bad feeling about Shasta.

...really? Because it certainly does not seem to me like that. Unless I missed something, she says only:

Originally Posted by Kath

Eomer - I love the first post. That said, banter. Ha, Eomer thought the same about Leggy's speaky uppy bit. Fair point about Nog. Keen on Eomer right now, he's thinking along the same lines. Probably means he's a wolf but there you go. Doesn't like wilwa's reasons for eliminating people, fair enough. List. Innocent: Shasta, Nilp, Rune. Guilty: Brinn, wilwa, Legate, Nienna. Ish. Feels there are dodgy votes, but then they were the early votes, and they're usually pretty odd.

Shasta - banter. Votes Nog with no reasoning. Not keen. If you can vote you can give a reason. I don't care if it's a rubbish reason but I want one.

Which, both of that, does not indicate anything strong for me. She maybe indicates feeling a bit good about you in some way, but it's promptly eliminated by "probably means he's a wolf..." - certainly in such a way that it'd be quite weird, I think, to take it as Seerish hint.

The same with Shasta - "not keen" is not any clear judgement for me.

I think you are reaching too far.

EDIT: x-ed with Nog

[Nogrod]

Oh, and by the way, Izzy kind of made her own death-warrant with her third-last minute post of wishing to have a threeway-tie.

Kath (a known innocent), Eomer and Eönwë jumped to it - as I thought of doing as well for a moment (when I counted I was not myself in danger any more I dared to try Sally hoping for other last minute votes for her against Izzy whom I didn't feel that suspicious - even counting that terrible comment). It gives the two a nice shield to defend their vote so if one of them is a wolf Izzy gave them a free ticket to hide there.

And Legate, if you're still around, you were talking about suspecting Sally, Wilwa, Eomer and Izzy like half of the Day - with no especially good "cases" against anyone of them (well, who has good cases on Day1 anyway?). But then you seemed to reverse yourself to a one-track-mind behaviour only concentrating on Izzy on the last hours and voting for her safely before the hassle in the end. I may be grasping at straws here but why did you stop suspecting the other three? Why weren't you entertaining the others as possible lynchees? Why did you tihnk Izzy more suspicious than Sally fex.?

Okay. To bed now...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

All right, now I am to go to sleep... just now...

Oh, wilwa, sorry if we played together and I did not remember: but if it was in some of the recent games, it was probably so that I died sometime on Day 1, so I hope you can excuse me that I don't remember much interaction with you

And a short reply...

Originally Posted by Nogrod

And Legate, if you're still around, you were talking about suspecting Sally, Wilwa, Eomer and Izzy like half of the Day - with no especially good "cases" against anyone of them (well, who has good cases on Day1 anyway?). But then you seemed to reverse yourself to a one-track-mind behaviour only concentrating on Izzy on the last hours and voting for her safely before the hassle in the end. I may be grasping at straws here but why did you stop suspecting the other three? Why weren't you entertaining the others as possible lynchees? Why did you tihnk Izzy more suspicious than Sally fex.?

Well, I decided for Isabell at one point, because she just seemed the most likely sneaky person slipping around to me. And I have decided sometime after that to just hold to it and see - because if I kept pondering, I would not end voting at all. I thought that perhaps presenting her as a case could make sense - at first I wanted to wait if there is support for that, because otherwise I could have voted sally (who already had more than one vote at that point, same as you), but the votes were still spread in such a way that it basically did not mean that other people (who had just one vote by then) could not get more votes. Basically, it made no difference for me whether Isa or sally will go (or Eomer or whoever, if somebody started to vote for them), so voting Isa just meant more possibility that one of my suspects will be lynched.

Okay. To bed now...

And me too. Good night, people. Back in several hours... or in the second half of the Day at most.