WW LXI: Grimm Tales

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

“Something quite large must have come through here.” Nerwen said, gaping at the gaps in the little house.

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

It looks like she was mauled, by something quite large.” Nerwen said, elaborating on the statement she had previously made.

I may as well reveal all now. I'm really... the Village Captain Obvious.

Well, our Moddess appears to think so, anyway.

Okay... I'm going to look through Lommy's posts now. I know Boro said he will, but a second look can't hurt.

Will I find anything? (2-1)

EDIT: X'd since Boro.

[Nerwen]

Oh– while I'm still here, what's with this weird comment?

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Oh hell...

++Nienna

This is going to end horribly, I can tell.

???And you still voted her?

[A Little Green]

I'm here. Well I don't like yesterDay's voting, I'll go now and read through it once again to see what exactly bothered me in there. At least the lynching of Nienna I didn't like at all. Was there any reason other than that she voted Fea rather jokingly? Her vote didn't look that good to me either but it's still quite a vague justification for a lynch...

[A Little Green]

So. The Nienna-voters were Eomer, Inziladun, Lommie, Boro and McCaber. I'm basically looking at these people because the whole thing was a strange bandwagon risen from quite a little thing in the end and I want to see if any of the people involved look like baddies jumping on an easy bandwagon.

Eomer was the first to vote Nienna.

Originally Posted by Eomer

I may retract, depending on how the day progresses. However, her vote smacks of surviving Day One without leaving any trail. Also, if I go ahead and vote now it might lead to more discussion, which is always useful.

His vote doesn't stink of wolf to me.

The second one to vote Nienna was Inziladun.

Originally Posted by Inziladun

There are three at this time who stand out to me: Boromir, who has thrown things out all over the place to the point I don't know how to take him; the phantom, offering little of any use, while making vague threats about how long everyone is safe, and Nienna, who cast that 'just because' vote for Feanor.
It's the last that bothers me the most, I think, and it smacks of a nervous ne'er do well possibly trying to eliminate one who could be a threat to her nefarious plans.

Of the sort-of joke-voters Nienna was the most discussed and in a way Inzy's vote was a very easy one. The tone of this, however, looks genuine to me, rather like a confused innocent who is not sure of what to do.

Lomzy, who was the third, obviously didn't have anything sinister in mind.

And then comes possibly the most quoted line in this game this far:

Originally Posted by Boro

Oh hell...

++Nienna

This is going to end horribly, I can tell.

This can be justified simply as a vote to save himself, as the voting situation when he made his vote was as follows:

Boro 3
Shasta 3
Nienna 3
Fea 1
Agan 1
Lommy 1
Sally 1
phantom 1
Lari 1

He must have wanted to save himself and considered Nienna a better lynch candidate than Shasta. In that light his vote doesn't seem that sinister. Of course, a wolf would like to save himself just as well. Actually - it just popped into my mind that if both Boro and Shasta were wolves, it would explain why he chose Nienna over Shasta without question. Have to look into this...

The last Nienna-voter was McCaber.

Originally Posted by McCaber

As I want Boro to live at least another day, my vote has to be

++Nienna

Because I'm pretty sure I can see what he's trying to do with this.

He cross-posted with Boro's vote so he must have seen the voting situation the same way Boro did. I'd like McCaber to clarify some things about this. Firstly, why did you want Boro to survive at least another Day, and secondly, who is "he" and what is "this" in your last sentence? Sorry, the post just didn't make sense to me and it made me uneasy.


EDIT: x-ed with McCaber and Boro

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Boro

I did it to save me, it's that simple. And I didn't realize I gave you such a headache when playing, my craziness is meant to amuse, if I knew I was being a real pain I would have stopped along time ago. You all need to make me aware of this stuff!

Don't worry, it's yesterDay's voting in general rather than your vote (or let alone your playing style) that is causing me a headache.

[Boromir88]

I really wish Kath would get here with the summary posts, I rely so much on that, instead of scrolling through pages of stuff. You know if she was evil she could twist the summary to her whim, because I do not double check any of it. I wonder, does everyone else not double check her summary posts?

Nerwen - funny and makes sense-ish, no reason to be at her throat yet
Eomer - his normal self ie bears watching
Lommy - to quote one of the greatest minstrels of our times, J.R.R. Tolkien: "immortal maiden Elven-wise"... except sadly not immortal!
Aganzir - is for once refraining from attacking me + makes good points = good
Sally - her instant has been an hour - suspicious
McCaber - making points and suspecting people, I quite like it
Izzy - nothing
Mira - nothing
Gaurcrist - nothing
Shasta - nothing
Gwath - nothing
Boro88 - amusing... but I'm really going to rip something or someone to pieces if he and phantom start a sort of clandestine co-operation again!
Kath - her normal self
Inziladun - getting hang of the game, actually playing, I like it
Fea - nothing
Nienna - making vague hints
Greenie - amusing but not much substance yet
Lari - fishy exactly in the way that attracts my Day1 votes magnetically (and usually is not proof of guilt.... *sigh*)
Mith - just made a fair point
the phantom - lack of substance and volume

There is nothing on a lot of people, but this was still early in the game, and of course all those "nothings" had not posted.

She like's Nerwen and me for being amusing. She also thinks Greenie is amusing but lacks substance. She likes Agan, McCaber and Zil for their approaches to the game so far.

Thinks sally is suspicious for her appearance. Says need to watch Eomer and doesn't like Lari's vote, and thinks phantom lacks substance and volume.

I can't see any baddie being tipped off that Lommy is the seer here. She mentions a lot of people. I haven't played enough with Lari quite yet, the one time I was the cobbler she was a super wolf. Eomer and phantom are far too composed to see any suspicion against them as being an automatic seer hint.

It is interesting what she said about herself however...maybe they believed Lommy was tipping off her role? "immortal maiden elven wise." If she was a maiden, or trying to look like one, that would tip off the robber bridegroom too.

In post 46 she tells Greenie to just ingore tp and me, because we were most likely just joking. tp said he was, and I can believe that, I thought he was sincerely dropping hints about his role everywhere.

136 is her next listing and the list is pretty evenly spread out. I guess the one thing that sticks out is in the evil list, while having a reason for almost everyone she calls Fea the "evil schemer-mastermind." If they thought they were getting the seer, this looks bad for anyone on the list, particularly Fea.

But then she defends my behavior while throwing a supicion at tp.

Well hishints are really rather boldly out there so it makes me wonder, as do many others who are throwing various hints around, mainly the phantom. This game is crazy.~post 161

I've personally witness tp in action as a wolf, and no matter what he likes to get the seer first. If the consistent Lommy against tp suspicion was tipping him off, he would kill her right off the bat.

The problem is I don't know if Lommy was killed because she was trying to look like the seer, or a lover. Since she turned out an ordo, I think it was clear that she was trying to fake some role to serve as protection. It would be easier to impersonate a lover, than the seer, and with the way she defended me from my attackers (thank you dear ), called herself a maiden, and generally defended me throughout the day. Plus, I was bluntly trying to hint at being a lover myself through most of the day, maybe they thought Lommy and I were lovers and were trying to take out two with one? But then why not me, who was giving more blatant hints?

Edit: crossed with Nerwen and Greenie

[Boromir88]

I'm on the fence about tp, I get what he was doing in saying that I obviously had a female role. Or at least I think so, but will wait for him to confirm it. He figured I was faking the lover status, and by emphasizing that I obviously had the female role, he was hoping to get the robber bridegroom to come after me. If so, then he has proven (at least to me) his innocence, but the problem I have is misreading tp's dizzling intellect. Plus, he could actually be a wolf, who believed my lover crap yesterday and is just waiting to take out two-in-one.

I have no good reason to feel bad about Mith, other than her posting yesterday. The frustrated, stressed out Mith, then come back recomposed is a classic frustrated baddie Mith. Also, she never asked if I didn't want to be lynched yesterday. I was used to that innocent Mith treatment. Of course people adapt and change to the situation and people's expectations, or maybe I haven't done a good enough job proving her I am innocent yet, or maybe she was just genuinely angry at me yesterday. Who knows? But just her overall posting yesterday is why I am suspicious of her today.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I have no good reason to feel bad about Mith, other than her posting yesterday. The frustrated, stressed out Mith, then come back recomposed is a classic frustrated baddie Mith. Also, she never asked if I didn't want to be lynched yesterday. I was used to that innocent Mith treatment. Of course people adapt and change to the situation and people's expectations, or maybe I haven't done a good enough job proving her I am innocent yet, or maybe she was just genuinely angry at me yesterday. Who knows? But just her overall posting yesterday is why I am suspicious of her today.

Yes, but there's the Shasta question. If Mith's a wolf and he's her fellow, I don't see why she'd be so hot to Fenris him... and if she's a wolf and he's not, she tried hard hard to get someone lynched who had just announced he was an ordo, and thus a Little Red Cap candidate.

I mean, she could have done either of those things just to look innocent, of course, but I certainly wouldn't want to bet on it.

EDIT"X'd since tp at #217,

[satansaloser2005]

Okay, so I've not read all the way through the thread but....


Seriously? Nienna? Why, people? Why?



Back soon. Doing a friend a favor and then I'm going to catch up over here, so I'll be back with more thoughts asap. And I'll also do a vote tally, because I want to see how the poor kid ended up deaded while I was gone.

[the phantom]

I'm here, and finishing my read-through. I've read everyone's posts except Boro and Mith, so when I'm done with them I'll post a little something. But first I'm going to post the voting and give thoughts on that.

As far as Lommy dying- not bad. Not that I don't enjoy her company, but that's as good a result as we could hope for (besides a Ranger save). After my read of her last night I was leaning innocent for her, but certainly not Gifted. She seemed peppy and fun at times, but not nervous or jumpy. She also seemed like she had the village's interests in mind, but didn't strike me as someone with heavy responsibility weighing her down.

Anyway, Boro, your first instinct was right. I wouldn't have killed her. There were two or perhaps three villagers who looked giftedish after my readthrough and they would've been the first to go. Though I think Seer hunting would've been out of the question, for I believe there was very little to go on.

Back in a bit.

edit: x-post since Boro

[the phantom]

Lari ++tp
Boro ++tp (2)
Mira ++Sally
Mith ++tp (3)
Kath ++Lommy
Sally ++Agan
Fea ++Boro
Gwath ++Boro (2)
Nienna ++Fea
Shasta ++Boro (3)
Lommy ++Shasta
Eomer ++Nienna
Boro --tp (2)
Izzy ++Shasta (2)
Inzil ++Nienna (2)
Green ++Shasta (3)
Mith --tp (1)
tp ++Lari
Lommy --Shasta (2)
Lommy ++Nienna (3)
Boro ++Nienna (4)
McCaber ++Nienna (5)
Agan ++Shasta (3)
Mith ++Shasta (4)

Thoughts:

Lari's vote is weird, because she states she voted for me hoping that I won't be lynched. Along the same lines is Sally, who votes Agan because "she won't mind" and Mira, who votes for Sally because "she won't hurt me back". Those are kind of weird in my mind.

Supposing Boro is innocent, then perhaps Gwath or Shasta could be baddies sending another innocent into a tie for the lead.

Supposing Shasta is innocent, Izzy doesn't look great for hopping on the bandwagon. Especially if it was to save a guilty Boro.

If both Boro and Shasta are innocent, then perhaps Inzil doesn't look so good for elevating a fourth innocent to multi-vote status.

And of course the oft quoted Boro vote does sound weird. Why so confident about a bad result, and if so, why not give Shasta a vote? But seeing as Boro had three votes himself, I am more than willing to let that comment go, for I can testify to the fact that when you are under the gun, all you can think about is padding the margin of the leader, no matter how innocent you think they may be.

Agan and Mith tried to do in Shasta there at the end, and seeing as they had no reason to save Nienna (from a baddie saving a baddie perspective) their votes look rather good.

Anyway, there's more I could say, but I really shouldn't at this point.

Now, I'm off to try and read Boro and Mith from Day 1.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by the phantom

As far as Lommy dying- not bad. Not that I don't enjoy her company, but that's as good a result as we could hope for (besides a Ranger save). After my read of her last night I was leaning innocent for her, but certainly not Gifted. She seemed peppy and fun at times, but not nervous or jumpy. She also seemed like she had the village's interests in mind, but didn't strike me as someone with heavy responsibility weighing her down.

It seems a bit odd to me that Lommy was taken out the Night after voting for Nienna, since she didn't show any particular clues that should have made her an obvious target. I guess it's coincidence though, cos otherwise it would mean some sort of complex scheme is in play, and at the moment that's just too much to try and puzzle out.

[Nerwen]

Lommy

She made a lot of posts, but I can't find anything at all in most of them. (I'm looking especially for things that might have been taken as Seer-hints).

However, she did make a couple of lists:

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Nerwen - funny and makes sense-ish, no reason to be at her throat yet
Eomer - his normal self ie bears watching <--Could this have been taken as a Seer-hint by the wolves?
Lommy - to quote one of the greatest minstrels of our times, J.R.R. Tolkien: "immortal maiden Elven-wise"... except sadly not immortal! <-- Possibly taken as a gifted hint also?
Aganzir - is for once refraining from attacking me + makes good points = good
Sally - her instant has been an hour - suspicious
McCaber - making points and suspecting people, I quite like it
Izzy - nothing
Mira - nothing
Gaurcrist - nothing
Shasta - nothing
Gwath - nothing
Boro88 - amusing... but I'm really going to rip something or someone to pieces if he and phantom start a sort of clandestine co-operation again!
Kath - her normal self
Inziladun - getting hang of the game, actually playing, I like it
Fea - nothing
Nienna - making vague hints
Greenie - amusing but not much substance yet
Lari - fishy exactly in the way that attracts my Day1 votes magnetically (and usually is not proof of guilt.... *sigh*)
Mith - just made a fair point
the phantom - lack of substance and volume

Then there's this, discussing the votes:

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

I don't really like the votes so far. They seem terribly flimsily reasoned even for Day1 votes. And what's all this "I'll vote x 'cos she won't get angry"?!

The first vote was Mira for Sally for apparently no reason even though there were already two pages of posting. I don't understand how come she wasn't able to find anything even slightly suspicious in that all.

The second one was Mith for phantom. Looks like she was just having a bad day and although that isn't a reasonable reason to vote someone, I'll let it pass. Or maybe she was just joking. *sigh*

Then, there was Kath for me. Guess what? I probably like this vote the best of those given so far. She voted less than ten minutes after Mira but unlike her, she was able to make a reasonable vote based on a (minor) suspicious thing. Exactly the thing I expect people to do on Day1. Who cares if the reason to suspect is a small one? It's still better than making a total shot in the dark!

I don't get Boro's behaviour but I think people are too quick to jump on it. It could have been just a joke. *shrugs* But actually the announcement that he's getting serious and we should ignore everything he said in the first half of the Day is what puzzles and worries me the most...

Quite frankly I don't like tp trying to hint being this and that. It could be a scheme to protect the village but it also could be a scheme to help the baddies or just him having fun, both of which do not sound very good to me.

Okay, back to discuss votes. Sally voted Agan based on a weird feeling and also used the infamous "she won't get mad at me" argument. I think this vote is ok, there's nothing bad in gut-feeling votes (except that they don't really reveal much of the voter).

Fea voted Boro next. I get a very bad feeling from this vote. It looks like a carefully planned bandwagon-starter against a dangerous player or maybe even a suspected gifted.

Gwathagor followed suit, but like he reminded, he mentioned the reason to vote Boro first and his vote looks rather ok, a lot less sinister than Fea's.

Nienna voted Fea just because "it's always a good idea to lynch Fea". If she's not going to come back and retract I'm going to seriously consider voting her. There were more then three pages of posting when she voted and she couldn't think of any more reasonable vote than voting her friend jokingly!

I don't like Shasta's vote either. Although it's (at least partly) a joke/grudge vote, I don't like it at all that he joins the predominant bandwagon so carelessly. Wolves are the only ones who can afford carelessness like that.

And another list: ("Good" and "Okay" categories ommitted.)

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Bad
Mira - like I just said, I don't like her vote.
Shasta - careless like a wolf (see my post discussing votes).
Fea - evil schemer-mastermind.
Nienna - trying to get away with a chit-chatty no trail vote? Or am I just overinterpreting it merely because I don't like it?
the phantom - I don't like the way he throws around various hints and is having ah so much fun with his role.

I can't get much out of this... except that she expressed suspicion of Shasta, Lari, tp and Fea more than once. The comment on Fea just above stands out because she's listed her simply as "evil schemer mastermind", whereas the other "bad" names have reasons for being there... but Lommy went on to vote Nienna for voting Fea. She also specifically used "wolf" in relation to Shasta twice, and voted him... but then switched. (Also, she'd previous had "nothing" to say about both Shasta and Fea.)

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

I must say I like Boro a lot more now that he has started taking the game seriously. He gives me the solid good innocent-Boro vibes but I'm far from sure so I'm still watching the situation. Well it may be simply that he stopped scheming...

Could the wolves have thought they were lovers who had just found each other? Or could the line "watching the situation" have been taken as a Seer-hint? (i.e. that she would dream him but hadn't yet.)

Says of Mith:

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

I'm not quite sure if I like Mith's discussion of Shasta. It's somehow rather unsettling... like, I don't know, maybe it sounds a bit as if it was written by a baddie instead of a goodie?

So...I don't know. Basically, she expressed suspicion of quite a few people, and did some things that might have looked gifted-ish (depending on who the wolves are) but overall it tends to cancel out e.g., her talking about Shasta as wolf-like, but then switching her vote to Nienna (known innocent)... would that have looked Seerish to a Wolftanis Althreduin? I doubt it.

EDIT: X'd since my last post.
EDIT2:name left out.