Tolkien and George R. Martin

[Thinlómien]

Personally, I do like Martin, but for very different reasons than I love Tolkien. I like his gruesome realism and his complex characters and the lack of definite good and evil. I don't really think there are good or evil characters in the books (Izzy, make your judgements only when you've passed further, my favourites and least favourites have changed innumerable times on the course of reading the series and I have started to understand characters whom I originally thought flat and unrealistic).

But - of course! - I disagree with what these people say about Tolkien. They have very many sides, it is just not explicitely stated, you have to read between the lines. Just think of the coolness and subtlety of characters like Aerin, or even the hues in Frodo or Aragorn (!).

Also, although Martin is good, he is in no way a match for Tolkien. True, he has his elaborate world, but it's history is not as deep, it has no own languages or such, and Martin doesn't have the same sense of words as Tolkien, nor does he mix folklore or big themes the same way. I'm not claiming he can't write fluently or beautifully, or anything else degrading, but his works just don't reach Tolkien's level and wide scope of expertise.

Originally Posted by Rhugga

A question this raises for me - is it possible for modern fantasy authors to write a good trilogy or even a decent number of books? I am thinking of Martin, Goodkind, and Jordan and their insanely lengthy works. The closest I can think is Tad Williams Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn and the third book of that had to be cut in two for the paperback!

I would point the attention to Ursula Le Guin, the only author that for me can compete with Tolkien in terms of wisdom&depth, writing skill and entertainment value (catchy storytelling) combined. If you're looking for something less "profound", Guy Gavriel Kay's books have wonderful storytelling, recycling of old myths, beautiful language and deep tragedy, and Robin Hobb is a superb storyteller, character-creator and recycler of clichés.

[Alfirin]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

If you're looking for something less "profound", Guy Gavriel Kay's books have wonderful storytelling, recycling of old myths, beautiful language and deep tragedy, and Robin Hobb is a superb storyteller, character-creator and recycler of clichés.

If you can get around the religious overtones (and to me, they're no more heavy handed than the ones in C.S. Lewis's Narnia) I've also derived no small joy from Orson Scott Card's Alvin Maker series. At six books (with one more to go) and two short stories (plus one epic length poem if your a real devotee) it's a bit lengthy. but as has been discussed seven books is nothing compared to how long people like Jordan have strached things (one of my other frustrations with Jordan is that, as less and less actual "in story" time passed with each book versus outside time (the time it took the actual books to come out), and the story got more and more complex, it became harder and harder, and yet more and more necessary for my comprehsion of each new book, to re-read ALL of the previos ones before starting each new volume). Card's Alvin is particulary good if you have a fondness for American "Tall Tales" as opposed to the romaticized medival world that most fantasy writers seem to look to for inspiration.

[Thinlómien]

PS. More 'downish book recommendations can be found here. It is also a less off-topic place to discuss other writers than Tolkien and Martin.

[obloquy]

Martin blows my mind. I pooped my pants at least 5 times while reading the first three books of his series. Dany and the funeral pyre??? Melisandre birthing a shadow??? Seriously.