WWLXX: At the Prison of Ice - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Pitchwife · 12-06-2009, 02:02 PM

What I don't get is why the wolves thought this whole Seer-reveal thing necessary, or even a good idea; it seems pretty risqué, and it'll put Lottie in a tight spot toMorrow. You might think Greenie's death would be quite enough to frame me, if they were planning to do that, as she'd been suspecting me for quite a while. And why me? It's not like I was a big threat to them, or am I overlooking something? Very puzzling...

Nogrod · 12-06-2009, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

What I don't get is why the wolves thought this whole Seer-reveal thing necessary, or even a good idea; it seems pretty risqué, and it'll put Lottie in a tight spot toMorrow.

Assuming your innocence - for the argument's sake here - I would agree that if Lottie is a wolf it would have been a bad idea indeed. And I can't see a reason for her to do it if she were a wolf.

But there is this secret role which Lottie probably is. What kind of role it is, is another matter. Lottie has told us she's a birthday dreamer, but that's actually all we have. It might be she's a cobbler of a kind, or a false seer (I've heard of that kind of role as well: there the "false-seer" thinks s/he's a seer but gets wrong information - but I think in a game with a false seer there is also a "right seer"), or whatever weird thing Legate has come up with.

I mean it can even be that Lottie has been what she is from the very beginning and now just tells us her powers work on the Night to come. But of that we have also only her word.

But however it is, we should see what Pitch is first and then act on that.

Talking of which...

++ Pitchie

satansaloser2005 · 12-06-2009, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Assuming your innocence - for the argument's sake here - I would agree that if Lottie is a wolf it would have been a bad idea indeed. And I can't see a reason for her to do it if she were a wolf.

But there is this secret role which Lottie probably is. What kind of role it is, is another matter. Lottie has told us she's a birthday dreamer, but that's actually all we have. It might be she's a cobbler of a kind, or a false seer (I've heard of that kind of role as well: there the "false-seer" thinks s/he's a seer but gets wrong information - but I think in a game with a false seer there is also a "right seer"), or whatever weird thing Legate has come up with.

I mean it can even be that Lottie has been what she is from the very beginning and now just tells us her powers work on the Night to come. But of that we have also only her word.

But however it is, we should see what Pitch is first and then act on that.

Talking of which...

++ Pitchie

My thoughts exactly. If it is a wolf move to do this elaborate reveal I'd go with Lottie (who either spearheaded it or was talked into it), Bes (the new kid), and either Mac or Boro (who are just mad enough to try something like this). Other than that I'd say Lottie could be some sort of something and could be telling the truth but twisting it, etc. But we'll know nothing until we lynch someone.

Nogrod · 12-06-2009, 02:21 PM

Add-on to the former speculation.

If Pitch turns out wolf as it looks like, we can't afford leaving Lottie to be among the last players anyway. I mean we have no hurry to lynch her like toMorrow but the only reason a wolf might have tried this kind of a trick would have been trying to sway us into thinking she must be innocent beyond any reasonable doubt (and yes she was getting the heat there earlier so maybe a panic-solution?). Anyway, with only her word on her role I think we have not that condition with us.

Brinniel · 12-06-2009, 02:23 PM

I need to get ready to go out, so I might as well do this before I forget:

++Pitchwife

satansaloser2005 · 12-06-2009, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Add-on to the former speculation.

If Pitch turns out wolf as it looks like, we can't afford leaving Lottie to be among the last players anyway. I mean we have no hurry to lynch her like toMorrow but the only reason a wolf might have tried this kind of a trick would have been trying to sway us into thinking she must be innocent beyond any reasonable doubt (and yes she was getting the heat there earlier so maybe a panic-solution?). Anyway, with only her word on her role I think we have not that condition with us.

Well hopefully the wolves would take care of her, though at the same time I can't see why they would bother right away, as she's not a continuous threat and even if she was proven correct she wouldnt' be completely trusted. They could just leave her be.

Heh. I totally had this thought last night. Lottie!wolf realizes she's in deep crap, comes out as this one-hit wonder seer, busses Pitch, and after that she's safe. The wolves obviously aren't going to touch her, and since she only gets one dream all game she can claim that as the reason; why would the wolves bother killing a useless seer when there's a perfectly good ranger to get rid of? So she could theoretically just float through the game as a known innocent until the last Day where she turns out to be a wolf and she dies. I would think of it in her position so I don't see why Lottie wouldn't try it.

Again, hoping I'm wrong, but putting it out there anyway. It'd be a good scheme.

EDIT: x'd with Brinn

Thinlómien · 12-06-2009, 02:32 PM

Well people, don't forget there'd still be the real special role who could counter-claim...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brinn

Yeah, I pretty much expected you would say that considering you even hinted at it yesterDay.

Hinted? What do you mean? I don't remember thinking that way or saying anything like that.

Nogrod · 12-06-2009, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Again, hoping I'm wrong, but putting it out there anyway. It'd be a good scheme.

Well that's exactly what I was thinking. So rest assured, the wolves probably will not kill Lottie but leave her around for us to decide on. And it's reasonable for them. The Day we lynch Lottie we're not lynching one of them. So in a sense they would get three clean kills in a row (N-D-N) and would be able to breathe freely for one Day.

satansaloser2005 · 12-06-2009, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Well that's exactly what I was thinking. So rest assured, the wolves probably will not kill Lottie but leave her around for us to decide on. And it's reasonable for them. The Day we lynch Lottie we're not lynching one of them. So in a sense they would get three clean kills in a row (N-D-N) and would be able to breathe freely for one Day.

I see what you did there. I think. But I hope not. Erm, anyway....

Also, good point from Lommie about another possible secret role (or rather the proper one if Lottie's lying) being able to reveal later.

Harrumph. ToDay was no fun. Then again, a Day where I'm spared is always a good Day, so I'll take what I can get. I'll make sure to get a look in at Bes, but this afternoon's simply too busy so I'll save some time later tonight to do it.

Brinniel · 12-06-2009, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lommy

Hinted? What do you mean? I don't remember thinking that way or saying anything like that.

Well, you suggested it:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lommy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brinn

If I were a wolf with Nienna, chances are I'd be throwing her under the bus rather than saving her. Because with her vote record, she'd probably deserve it. Sorry Nienna.

In the past, I've had no problems with lynching a fellow wolf if I thought that was necessary to make myself look better and/or they were drawing enough attention to themselves anyway. Which is probably why I'm wary of the Mnemo voters. I know I'm not the only player here that doesn't mind throwing a fellow wolf under the bus.

Makes me actually wonder if Brinn's a wolf and Nienna's an innocent...

Macalaure · 12-06-2009, 02:50 PM

Nothing really new, but I can't find anything to comment about.

Currently, I don't suspect
Lottie, Boro, Nerwen

I don't suspect very much
Lommy (I used to have an eerie feeling about Lommy, but it's getting better. Good analysis: a lot of stuff in a concise way... if only everybody did it that way

), Bes, Sally, Eomer, Morsul

I'm really not sure about
Brinn (unless I missed it, you haven't commented on my comment about you voting Sally instead of Wilwa), Nogrod, Shasta

I suspect
Pitch, Wilwa

Oh, and

++Pitchwife

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lommy

Hmm. What if everybody states who would they vote if Pitch wasn't an option?

Wilwa, obviously.

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 12-06-2009, 02:35 PM

Well, I've been unavailable today so sorry about that. I'll catch up with everything tomorrow (if work is quiet

) and be able to play again if I'm still around.

++PITCH

Not sure what to make of Loslote. Interesting to read the accusations between my three other suspects, Wilwa, Shasta and Sally.

Pitchwife · 12-06-2009, 02:32 PM

Like a wolf out of hell I'll be lynched when the Evening comes
When the Day is over like a wolf out of hell I'll be gone gone gone
Like a wolf out of hell I'll be lynched when the Evening comes
But when the Night has come
And the stars are out
And the moon is shining through
Then like a spectre born of guilty conscience
My ghost will come haunting you

Nogrod · 12-06-2009, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Then like a spectre born of guilty conscience
My ghost will come haunting you

Whose guilty conscience might you be referring to Mr. Poet-Agreeable?

But if you're an innocent, we'll lynch Lottie toMorrow to be sure. If she then turns out to be just a cobbler, then bad for us (but wonderful play by Lottie!).

On the question of who else to lynch if there wasn't this Lottie - Pitchie situation going on...

I don't know. Something bugs me with Mac. Just looking at his latest... so when I reminded him of our logistical problems yesterDay when he had suspected the timing of my vote he says:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mac

Alright, I didn't think of that. Vote placement is out of the window. You still voted for an innocent and not for who I think is a wolf. You're not of the hook, my friend.

Now what kind of suspicion is this?

If we should suspect anyone who has voted for an innocent I'm afraid we should suspect everyone... well, that's actually what we have to do, but using that as an argument on anyone's particular suspiciousness is pretty poor. Not to talk of the latter part: if you don't vote for the one(s) I think is a wolf then you must be a wolf?

Maybe Mac is just short of time, under RL pressure or something... In #663 I gave some reasons to suspect him and will not repeat them here.

But to be honest: with this many people left I would not have voted or called for voting Mac toDay. Without this Pitch-issue I might have suggested we checked out Bes or Morsul now when we can afford it. Or well, Lottie - if she hadn't "revealed" that is (eg. if there would not be this whole case we have).

But I don't know. It's hard to say what one would have done without things unravelling this way. I might have taken a closer look to Brinn, or Boro, or... and who knows what I would have thought then?

Macalaure · 12-06-2009, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nogrod

In #663 I gave some reasons to suspect him and will not repeat them here.

I missed to comment on them, but there really wasn't much to say. You listed things I did and I can do nothing but to admit that I did them. You didn't say anything that I had to defend myself against.

Nogrod · 12-06-2009, 02:59 PM

I'm quite confused with Shasta, Wilwa and Sally whom everyone seems to suspect. I can see some of it and not see the other parts. If I'm alive toMorrow I will try to delve into those three as well.

12-06-2009, 02:02 PM	#1
Pitchwife Wight of the Old Forest Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Unattended on the railway station, in the litter at the dancehall Posts: 3,329	What I don't get is why the wolves thought this whole Seer-reveal thing necessary, or even a good idea; it seems pretty risqué, and it'll put Lottie in a tight spot toMorrow. You might think Greenie's death would be quite enough to frame me, if they were planning to do that, as she'd been suspecting me for quite a while. And why me? It's not like I was a big threat to them, or am I overlooking something? Very puzzling... __________________ Und aus dem Erebos kamen viele seelen herauf der abgeschiedenen toten.- Homer, Odyssey, Canto XI

12-06-2009, 02:21 PM	#4
Nogrod Flame of the Ainulindalë Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Wearing rat's coat, crowskin, crossed staves in a field behaving as the wind behaves Posts: 9,308	Add-on to the former speculation. If Pitch turns out wolf as it looks like, we can't afford leaving Lottie to be among the last players anyway. I mean we have no hurry to lynch her like toMorrow but the only reason a wolf might have tried this kind of a trick would have been trying to sway us into thinking she must be innocent beyond any reasonable doubt (and yes she was getting the heat there earlier so maybe a panic-solution?). Anyway, with only her word on her role I think we have not that condition with us. __________________ Upon the hearth the fire is red Beneath the roof there is a bed; But not yet weary are our feet...

12-06-2009, 02:23 PM	#5
Brinniel Reflection of Darkness Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Polishing the stars. Well, somebody has to do it; they're looking a little bit dull. Posts: 2,983	I need to get ready to go out, so I might as well do this before I forget: ++Pitchwife __________________ Nolite te bastardes carborundorum

12-06-2009, 02:35 PM	#12
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,859	Well, I've been unavailable today so sorry about that. I'll catch up with everything tomorrow (if work is quiet ) and be able to play again if I'm still around. ++PITCH Not sure what to make of Loslote. Interesting to read the accusations between my three other suspects, Wilwa, Shasta and Sally. __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

12-06-2009, 02:32 PM	#13
Pitchwife Wight of the Old Forest Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Unattended on the railway station, in the litter at the dancehall Posts: 3,329	Like a wolf out of hell I'll be lynched when the Evening comes When the Day is over like a wolf out of hell I'll be gone gone gone Like a wolf out of hell I'll be lynched when the Evening comes But when the Night has come And the stars are out And the moon is shining through Then like a spectre born of guilty conscience My ghost will come haunting you __________________ Und aus dem Erebos kamen viele seelen herauf der abgeschiedenen toten.- Homer, Odyssey, Canto XI

12-06-2009, 02:59 PM	#16
Nogrod Flame of the Ainulindalë Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Wearing rat's coat, crowskin, crossed staves in a field behaving as the wind behaves Posts: 9,308	I'm quite confused with Shasta, Wilwa and Sally whom everyone seems to suspect. I can see some of it and not see the other parts. If I'm alive toMorrow I will try to delve into those three as well. __________________ Upon the hearth the fire is red Beneath the roof there is a bed; But not yet weary are our feet...