Werewolf LXXII: Now There's the Truth of It! (Game Thread)

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Well, nobody's going to vote for a dreamed wolf this game. So it would be a matter of arranging it so that everyone else got at least one vote. Anyone trying to sabotage that would look pretty furry. However, if things were left too late, it might be possible for the wolves to "accidentally" vote the wrong people, and then blame it on the last-minute rush. Thus, the Seer would need to reveal fairly early in the Day.

Hopefully a Seer-reveal will be entirely unnecessary. But if someone did vote for a wolf obtained from a Seer dream, they'd be in the hot seat, no matter their excuse.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

What I don't like is our chance of getting an un-dreamed wolf in the early part of the game.

Well, it's about the same odds as usual, isn't it? It is going to take a bit more heads up thinking though to spread out the votes wisely, along the lines of what Nog said.

Originally Posted by Brinniel

As for all this Day/Night confusion that happened at the beginning, I don't think it really says anything of anyone's roles. A wolf could just as easily make that mistake as an ordo. Perhaps if there were no PM exchanges between the wolves yet, one (or more) simply assumed the Day had already begun. I don't know if a wolf would pretend to post ignorantly to make them look better. It's against the rules to post during a Night phase, and while it's one thing if it's just an honest mistake, I think it'd be rather unsporty to post knowing you're not supposed to just so you can fake ignorance and look better once the Day actually begins.

This makes sense. If the wolves were PMing it follows they should have been clear it was Night, and no posting was allowed. But who knows that but they?
Sally said in the opening post:

The first round of eliminations will commence at 3 a.m. GMT tomorrow. Best of luck to all!

Saying 'eliminations' would begin about 24 hours from that time led me to believe that was when Day would begin. Since every game I've been in has had a Night phase first, I took it that this was no different. Izzy said that some games have begun with Day, though. So I still don't know that the 'illegal' posters can necessarily be classified one way or the other.

[Nogrod]

First I thought I would just ignore that false-start, but now reading your comments and thinking of it again, I'm beginning to think it might be actually quite good to hear from everyone there why was it they posted.

Also, there is a major difference I think between Form who started and Mira, Nerwen & Eönwë who followed.

But let's not speculate on the possible reasons before they have a chance to answer themselves. If there is lycantrophy involved I wouldn't like to give a wolf an argument...

Originally Posted by Nienna

We need to look at everyone including the people who are quiet or who haven't even posted at all.

What I said... if we have fex. four quiet people who don't take part in the discussion we just need to differentiate between them as not to affect a no-lynch! How to do that?

So please post people!

Originally Posted by Nienna

There is going to be a lot of confusion at Day's end even with the cautions against it. It is inevitable.

Exactly. That's why I said everyone should read the thread and know the situation before voting. This is indeed a different game and the whole dynamic is different.

So please read people!

[Nogrod]

Okay. We're going to have some fun here as Lommy & Greenie are at my place, but I will come back when they go to sleep.


Just a few thoughts on people on the fly.

If I had to vote now, I'd probably vote for Brinn, Nienna and Nerwen for their reasonable points. Inzil might take my last vote.

With Lottie I'm a bit insecure. She has been very active and provided things to think about - so therefore I'd wish to see her continue the game. But it just struck me that if she is a wolf (and was thus perfectly aware of the fact that the people posting there were mistaken) it would have been relatively good idea for her to make a public note of it! I don't know, I'm pretty good at getting her wrong as well.

But happily it's still early on the Day and hopefully more people will join the discussion so that it would be easier to form opinions on you.


Btw. concerning the votes. It would be quite reasonable for everyone to use all their votes toDay so that the possibility of there remaining four people without votes would be smaller. And of course those voting late should take care nothing like that happens...

I'll be back in a few hours.

[satansaloser2005]

I don't care either way but for both Alona's sanity (bless her!) and that of all you lot you could probably highlight your votes. Just sayin'.



Oh, and nice parody, Lottie!

[the phantom]

I think it's laughable that you all have put your names down for a "Most Popular Downer" competition. If you were truly impressive and notable, the very idea of competing for approval from the masses would cause you to become physically ill.

Ah, but perhaps I'm being too hasty in writing you off immediately. Everyone must start somewhere... I suppose it's possible that there is one of you who does have what it takes but simply has not gained the necessary wisdom and attitude to be one of the elite. If you truly believe you are destined for great things, you had better pay attention during this little adventure. You can learn much.

I'll check in on you all later, but for now, I'll leave with you four points.

1) Very bad form coming in early like that, Form. One of the most important traits of a great Downer is timing. There is a time for seriousness, a time for flirting, a time for joking, as well as the often ignored time for silence. There are instances when posting before/after a deadline is actually the right thing to do in the grand scheme of things, but not at the very start.

2) And then there's Mira, Nerwen, and Steve. You three are guilty of speaking out of turn as well, but your mistake is worse than Form's, as you not only displayed bad timing, but herd mentality as well. The great do not follow!

3) And to Loslote- don't be an insufferable rule-kissing nag. While it may have been wrong for the others to speak when they did, it is an even worse crime to assume laws and rules are always right and should always be followed strictly. Those who are overly eager to chide others for rule-breaking usually have that sort of mindset- the absolute wrong mindset for achieving greatness. You should be looking for opportunities to take advantage of rule-breaking yourself rather than policing others.

4) Barely even one page of posting and half the day gone... Pitiful! I could have posted that much all by myself.

[Pitchwife]

Ah, the Heckler has spoken! I was beginning to wonder when we would hear from him...

Just noticed something - in the narration, last Night was referred to as Night 0, which implies that toDay is Day 0, not Day 1. Any ideas what that means?

About strategy - Nog has made some good points about spreading the votes etc., but I'd like to note that the regular approach of keeping the people who're active and contributing is a little more problematic in this game than usual. It's one thing to not quite lynch them yet, but it's quite another to run the risk that an active and reasonable-looking wolf may be elected to the Simony (or whatever it should be properly called), giving them power to mess with our votes on the next Day. Unfortunately, I don't yet see how to minimize that risk. Suggestions?

(x-ed with Stevonwë, who also comments on the Day 0 thing)

EDIT: also x-ed with Form and another Stevonwë)

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Ah, the Heckler has spoken! I was beginning to wonder when we would hear from him...

Just noticed something - in the narration, last Night was referred to as Night 0, which implies that toDay is Day 0, not Day 1. Any ideas what that means

It means the moddess is silly and likes to start at 0 rather than 1, that's all. ToDay is Day 1.



And yes, the Phantom has spoken. ^_^

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

It means the moddess is silly and likes to start at 0 rather than 1, that's all. ToDay is Day 1.

I'm disappointed.
In fact, this game has been unnervingly sane up to now. You do realize you've got a reputation to live up to, don't you?

Speaking of sanity...

Originally Posted by Eönwë

On the other hand, this new way of playing means that there will be less of a difference between the way that ordos and wolves post, because everyone will be thinking the way a wolf does, and so will try to get the confidence of the village as much as possible. It also means that people will be less likely to do crazy posts that leave everyone confused, because less people will be likely to vote for that sort of person past Day 1. In other words, being confusing and unhelpful is probably much more risky in this game, meaning that ordos will act more like wolves try to, and the wolves will probably try harder to look useful.

So maybe we should actually vote for the crazy and confusing people?

[wilwarin538]

Here and reading....

[Nienna]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

About strategy - Nog has made some good points about spreading the votes etc., but I'd like to note that the regular approach of keeping the people who're active and contributing is a little more problematic in this game than usual. It's one thing to not quite lynch them yet, but it's quite another to run the risk that an active and reasonable-looking wolf may be elected to the Simony (or whatever it should be properly called), giving them power to mess with our votes on the next Day. Unfortunately, I don't yet see how to minimize that risk. Suggestions?

Electing a wolf as Simon won't be good but I also don't think it would be tragic... at least not at this stage of the game. We need to use our votes to pick someone who would be reasonable as Simon but we also need to make sure we use our votes to lynch someone. That is how we will get rid of wolves. That is how we will win.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

So maybe we should actually vote for the crazy and confusing people?

Well, as an ordo you have less to lose if you die than if you are a wolf, so maybe, unless it's a very confident wolf. Of course, the person you are voting might just be crazy and confusing anyway, so I don't really think that'll work.

Originally Posted by Nienna

Electing a wolf as Simon won't be good but I also don't think it would be tragic... at least not at this stage of the game.

True... early on two votes can easily be overruled, but the further the game goes, the more power the Simon will have.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

With Lottie I'm a bit insecure. She has been very active and provided things to think about - so therefore I'd wish to see her continue the game. But it just struck me that if she is a wolf (and was thus perfectly aware of the fact that the people posting there were mistaken) it would have been relatively good idea for her to make a public note of it! I don't know, I'm pretty good at getting her wrong as well.

That's something to be considered, at least. Coming across as the straight arrow who has to wrangle the outlaws back into line could be seen as good public relations for a wolf.
On the other hand, I too have a track record of reading Lottie incorrectly, so I hesitate to focus on that too much at the moment.

Originally Posted by Nienna

Electing a wolf as Simon won't be good but I also don't think it would be tragic... at least not at this stage of the game. We need to use our votes to pick someone who would be reasonable as Simon but we also need to make sure we use our votes to lynch someone. That is how we will get rid of wolves. That is how we will win.

Those last two sentences look strange to me. Rather forced, and a subtle 'I'm no wolf' between the lines.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Just noticed something - in the narration, last Night was referred to as Night 0, which implies that toDay is Day 0, not Day 1. Any ideas what that means?

Bet it means nothing. Or, rather, that it means that on Night 0, nothing happens but ModDeath, after which Day 1 starts (things happen) followed by Night 1 (things happen).

Originally Posted by Sally

It means the moddess is silly and likes to start at 0 rather than 1, that's all. ToDay is Day 1.

Sawwee!!! How'm I supposed to respond to things systematically as I read if you responded before I got home but after I tried to respond?

Originally Posted by Vanilwa

Ok, so the Night posters totally mixed me up yesterday when I saw people posting, cause I had it written in my day planner that yesterday was a Night phase (yes, I keep track of WW stuff in my dayplanner ).

I freaking love you for keeping WW in your dayplanner. Just sayin'. Not least because I had to schedule it in myself, what with my crazy life. (Brief explanation of: I meant to be around at midDay but got stuck out of town running errands and by the time I got home I had to sprint out the door to get to work on time and only just got onto the 'Downs).

Originally Posted by Izzy

It looks like it was a general mistaken error, and I agree with those whom have said - I doubt someone would knowingly post during the Night, just to make themselves look better.

I concur. While it's plausible that some enterprising individual might try to meta-manipulate like that, the odds of it having any functional and predictable benefit aren't really good enough to warrant bothering. I mean... what are the odds that posting at night is going to convince people you're not evil? It's just trash logic and would be a kinda useless waste of time and energy.

Originally Posted by Gwath

There goes my usual strategy of saying as little as possible. It will be interesting to see how this affects folks' playing styles, since it behooves us all, to some extent, to TRY to attract attention.

Psh... just ask the Bostonmooters: I attract attention even when sick and sleeping. Posting? As if posting was necessary for one such as me! No, but seriously, there's something interesting about the psychology behind trying to avoid being the least favorite and actively striving to be the most loved. Frankly, every time I play werewolf I wish I was studying it as social psych. Because the question comes down to how much you think somebody is willing to alter their normal state in order to accrue popularity. Ie: how much are any of the players here willing to change themselves in order to please others?

Me? Even if I had the time and energy to pretend like I care about being popular, I wouldn't. Because it would almost certainly be detrimental to me to try to attract attention, since urban legend suggests that I'm only vocal when I'm evil. Ergo, I'm playing how I feel like playing based on my schedule and my whim (and Sally's whim), and the rest of you will just have to deal.

Originally Posted by Nog

I just don't see the point of this objection. It looks like you'd wish us not to talk of whom we actually suspect so as to let the wolves skip freely in the shadows? It's the point of the game-mechanics that we vote for confidence, but our goal nevertheless is getting the wolves lynched. Or do you have a different goal?

I view it as drawing negative space. With voting for who you want to kill, you're drawing the subject of the picture. You're making it obvious.

But when you vote for who you want to keep alive, you're filling in your background. The silhouette you reveal is the identity of the person who is least trusted.

In short, I find this argument silly, since regardless of whether you vote for favorite or least favorite, you're still eventually going to have an Undesirable die at the hands of the village.

It's just more like death by negligence instead of death by pitchfork. Just think of us leaving a poor little villager out in the cold while the rest of us party, and coming out in the morning to find them frozen in the snow.

Originally Posted by phantom

And I still can't believe no one has suggested something interesting, such as- "On Day 2, why don't we all agree to dump three of our four votes immediately on a non-player (e.g. Shasta) and then we'll all have only one single vote with which to save someone from then on. It will make votes more meaningful and make things more tense and encourage bargaining and make lists and such much shorter and easier to keep track of etc etc..."

Because I haven't been home until now! I vote for this idea. Then again, last time I tried to convince a group to control votes and kill a known wolf with them, they managed to kill me instead. So frankly, my faith in group think is negligible. No offense to you all as individuals, but it's a proven fact that groups of people are stupid.

What we need here is a benevolent dictator. We shouldn't be voting anybody into Simon, Simon should seize control!

Veni, vidi, vici!

[alonariel]

Just got off work (and am apparently back from the dead!). Here goes, let me know if there are any mistakes!

Brinn - 2
Dun - 7
Fea - 2
Form - 2
Glirdan - 5
Gwath - 4
Izzy - 3
Lottie - 9
Mira - 5
Nerwen - 10
Nienna - 8
Nog - 13
Pitch - 5
Rune - 2
Steve - 13
Wilwa - 2

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by alonariel

Just got off work (and am apparently back from the dead!). Here goes, let me know if there are any mistakes!

Brinn - 2
Dun - 7
Fea - 2
Form - 2
Glirdan - 5
Gwath - 4
Izzy - 3
Lottie - 9
Mira - 5
Nerwen - 10
Nienna - 8
Nog - 13
Pitch - 5
Rune - 2
Steve - 13
Wilwa - 2

Thank you so much. Lol I was afraid you wouldn't be here and I'm busy and can't count votes. *snuggles you*

[Eönwë]

Ok, well these two seem innocent to me right now:

++Brinn
++Wilwa

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

++Wilwa
++Rune
++Stick

[wilwarin538]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Wilwa (#119) votes Zil and Nienna but "will probably not (but might be persuaded to) vote Formy, Nerwen, Mira, or Gwath".

nope nope:

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

Ok, gonna do this now thens:

++Glirdan

Cause I don't want the poor kid getting lynched Day 1 again.

++Fea

Cause all she's said was 1 word and I don't want a submarine type to get lynched just for lack of posts.

++Nog

Cause I feel good about him.

and then I later voted for Lottie aswell. You must have me mixed up with someone else.



So I am here. I'm going to just let you all know now that I am beyond exhausted. My cat Beau has this weird respitory infection and he slept with me last night like always and I basically didn't sleep cause I was so paranoid that he'd stop breathing on me. Probably the most dreadful sounds I have ever heard coming out of a living thing. So I don't have much to do today at all (no animal clinics open til tomorrow anyway, so dumb) so I'll be here quite a bit, but I am really tired and kind of distracted by him. So if I don't make any sense at some point or mix up names or some sort of such nonsense, that's why.

I'm going to go read through today again so I can come up with something coherent. Good job Nienna!

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

And apparently somebody cast a third vote for Mira, but I can't find who that was.

I also only found two votes for Mira, Izzy and Form. It is interesting to me that Form also voted for Mira and, as had been noted, both were also among the Night posters. Coincidence? At this point, I'm inclined to think not.

Originally Posted by Glirdan

[Mira] played it low profile AND also happened to be one of the pre-Day posters. Perhaps one of her furry compatriots happens to be one of those that posted along with her. Two of those she voted for also happened to be two of those that posted during that time: Form and Lottie. However, I will eliminate Lottie from that as she only posted to tell everyone to shut their mouths. Perhaps taking a closer look at Form toDay would be in our best interest.

I don't think that entirely clears Lottie, since I guess it is possible she, along with Mira and Form, could all three be wolves and Lottie had thought of publicly shushing them to give herself a more innocent look. However, I think Lottie does look better than Form.

Originally Posted by Loslote

Nice to know I'm not just silly and someone else noticed it, too...she does talk about/to him a lot, doesn't she? You'd almost think she was a seer and dreamed him...maybe that's why the wolves killed her, thinking she *was* the seer. Huh.

I think that's a reach. I didn't see anything Seer-worthy about Nienna at all. I'd go more with her being a fairly trailless kill, and, since Mira was a wolf and knows Nienna well in RL, she would have been an even more inviting target, someone especially dangerous to Mira.

[wilwarin538]

Originally Posted by Glirdan

Comments
She played it low profile AND also happened to be one of the pre-Day posters. Perhaps one of her furry compatriots happens to be one of those that posted along with her. Two of those she voted for also happened to be two of those that posted during that time: Form and Lottie. However, I will eliminate Lottie from that as she only posted to tell everyone to shut their mouths. Perhaps taking a closer look at Form toDay would be in our best interest.

But we can't eliminate Lottie all together just for that reason.

Originally Posted by Loslote

Nice to know I'm not just silly and someone else noticed it, too...she does talk about/to him a lot, doesn't she? You'd almost think she was a seer and dreamed him...maybe that's why the wolves killed her, thinking she *was* the seer. Huh.

(this was about Nienna talking about Nog) This is possible and would make Nog look pretty good.

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Than, you silly bugger, than. And yay for a more active Glirdan. ^_^

I agree! Sooo happy to have my bff back on here. And alive day 2. And I make the same mistake with than/then all the time, it may be a Canadian thing.

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

For the record, I was in fact suggesting the opposite thing: to vote those people, but not to lynch but to keep - based on the consideration that the Wolves would need even more to appear helpful and trustworthy in this game than usual. It wasn't really a dead serious suggestion, more a thought experiment, hence the question-mark. (Anyway, I know ingrained thinking-habits die hard, so I'm not making much of this misrepresentation.)

I don't quite get where all this wave of trust in Nog comes from. As Nerwen just said concerning Form, it's not like our deceased innocents knew anything, they could have been just as mistaken as everybody else. Nog started out making some good points yesterDay, but I don't like how he used my disagreement about a minor technical point (introduction of marked lynch votes) as the starting point for big-time suspicion that almost succeeded in getting me lynched. And I don't at all like the way he acts like he knows what is best for us all and everybody who dares to disagree is working against the common good, hence wolvish. (Yeah, that's what the phantom said to do, but since when has going by anybody's book, even the phantom's, been a hallmark of genius? Or innocence, for that matter.)
Nothing of this is really new, of course, it's just getting on my nerves a bit more than usual. Especially as I don't really disagree with any of his substantial points - yes, of course we've got to catch Wolves, of course we should suspect people, of course we need to get the Wolves lynched; thanks for reminding us all that this is a Werewolf game, I'm sure some people had quite forgotten that. I don't think anybody was seriously debating that, it's just that we've got to handle the matter a little differently than we normally do. End of discussion.
And now I've got this out of my system, time for some thinking.

K, for some reason this entire post screams Innocent to me. It just reminds me of myself I think a bit. Cause quite often in games (atleast recently) I've been a frustrated innocent who has happened to disagree with Nog and it's a very stressful situation . So this post just makes me feel quite good about Pitch.

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Mira's stated reasons for her votes:

Quote:
++Glirdan Also don't want him to get lynched Day 1. Poor kid never gets to play this game anymore.

Understandable, I think.

Yes, well it is. But it could also just be a very convenient reason to cover her protecting a wolf. I really really want to trust Glirdy, but him and I both know we never trust each other. It's so weird.

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Quote:
++Fea She's much too amusing to kill off this early.

I absolutely concur.

I also agree with this. It could again be just a convenient reason to protect a wolf, but I don't think so. If she was using that reason for anyone else then I would find it weird, but for Fea I really think this was her for real reason for keeping her around.

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Quote:
++Form I really don't think a wolf would slip up and post before they were supposed to. Especially one as experienced as Form.

This is interesting - a defense of Form that also just happens to work as a self-defense. Now, of course, we know that one of the Wolves did slip up exactly like that. It's also interesting that Form gave a similar reason for his vote for Mira.

I find this very interesting. Though I think it is unlikely that 2 wolves would make the same mistake, especially being the first to start it like Form, it's still possible. I don't know, I'm really iffy on this situation.

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Quote:
++Lottie No real reason, just have an okay feeling about her.

Nothing suspicious there, as far as I can tell - but again, looking for connections, it's interesting that Form also voted for Lottie. From a wolf, it might be a smart move to vote confidence for someone who has suspected you just a wee bit but not seemed terribly eager to lynch you - makes you look more innocentish, like "See? I've got no reason to fear you".

I find myself trusting Lottie, but I see it as very likely that each wolf voted to protect at least 1, if not 2, of their fellow wolves. So I think atleast 1 wolf needs to be amoung these 4. Lottie is really the one with the flimsiest reason for the protection (yes, I protected her too with no reason at the time, I'm aware). So even though I'm inclined to trust her, this is just standing out a lot to me.

So out of the four, in order of who I think is most likely a wolf: Lottie, Glirdy, Form and then Fea. Even though I feel good about all of them, so it's a tough situation.

x'ed with Inzil

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

nope nope:

and then I later voted for Lottie aswell. You must have me mixed up with someone else.

Yes, it was Lottie herself. I don't know how I mixed you up, except that I was in a hurry as I had to go out. Sorry.

[Pitchwife]

What, no 10 pages yet? And very little banter, actually. There's still hope...
Concerning the question of pre-Day posting, I was a little confused myself by this:

Originally Posted by sally on Admin thread

Also, I won't be here for DL 'cause I have church, but I'll put up the narration straightaway when I get back so as soon as it hits 3 a.m. GMT (in eight hours) feel free to chat it up or do whatever. Enjoy!

(Underlining mine)
"Chat it up" must have referred to the wolves' PMing, but at the time it looked to me like we were starting with a Day phase. There have been precedents, and considering who's modding this, I think there's precious little we can take for granted.
Of course it's entirely possible that there's a wolf among the pre-Day posters, but the pre-Day posting per se is no evidence of lupinity. On the other hand, grabbing a straw like that and blowing it up into a suspicion could be exactly that. (Wait, how do you blow up a straw? I need to be more careful with my metaphors...) On the gripping hand* (mutants of the world unite!), the discussion had to be started somehow...
More to follow.

*Nerwen, ever read The Mote in God's Eye?

[Glirdan]

Hey all, I'm here but pretty much just to vote as I have some things I have to do and won't be around for the DL.

However, I will be addressing somethings

Originally Posted by Brin

Oh and Glirdan, did they really lynch you on Day 1 last game? I remember there were a few who joked about lynching you Day 1, but I didn't think they'd actually do it. Meanies.

Yes, yes they did...the jerks.

Originally Posted by Brin

I'd imagine spreading out our votes would be the smarter thing to do. If several players make all four votes at once at the end of the Day, that could lead to disaster.

And yet sometimes it is unavoidable...like in my case currently as I will probably be making my votes within the next hour.

And speaking of votes, I will make one right now for:

++Nogrod

He has been quite helpful from everything that I've read thus far. Clear, concise, logical thoughts.

I really wish I had more time to vote and read ( ), but I will be leaving quite soon and actually have company at the moment. I will be back on (well I hope to anyways) before I have to leave to vote at least once more.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Glirdan

And speaking of votes, I will make one right now for:

++Nogrod

Needs to be highlighted, Glirdy.

[Nogrod]

Possible votes of confidence

Brinn – spoke sense early on the Day but hasn’t appeared after that. Could be perfect wolvery or just RL busyness… I’d hate to see her gone because of that especially as I have no possibility to see what she might do during the last hours.

Dun – Seems to be sensical and bold enough to take sides on some issues. Good for me.

Gwath – speaks sense indeed. He would be a terribly effective wolf or then an ordo. I’m leaning on the latter for D1.

Nerwen – mainly to the point and anyway too valuable to lose on D1…

Nienna – Seems collected and to the point. I like her posting, it feels well-intended and is reasoned.

I can't vote all five, but my four votes will most probably go for four of them.

As I said, we better use all our votes - hey Glirdan, use them all! The more votes we have cast the lesser the risk that we do not manage to lynch anyone.



The less trusted ones... but not actually suspicious enough I'd like to see them lynched.

Fea – one post total, saying “Marco?” C'mon Fea!

Form – the first poster, leaning towards innocent thus far (although looking at the scope of the explanation it looks a bit overdone).

Glirdan – kind of perfect wolf-strategy: being there but not much said to stir controversy. Looking at his “comeback” ending up in early deaths I’d hate to see him gone on D1 though.

Lottie – she’s a problem for me. The intervention back there on the wrong start is not thoroughly innocent-looking as it would be such a nice idea for a wolf to do but then again I have nothing else on her so it might be just pure “what if”?

Rune – more or less the same as with Glirdan… I’d hate to see him gone with that little to be said on him – even if that would be the best wolf tactics in this game.

Wilwa – she’s had not much time so far I can see, but soo reasonable and careful! If I hadn’t promised I’ll not suspect her firsthand I’d suspect her, but now I think I’ll just have to leave it at that.



The ones I do suspect more or less...

Izzy – I don’t like her suggestion that we should skip lynching someone today. Also even if I’m not willing to put “all those and only those” people into the firing-line who posted prematurely, her defence of them as a lot makes me wonder, like she’s downplaying the chance there was a wolf in there? Her latest looks sensible again… gah.

Mira – the odd one out for me. Her actions might win her a place in my suspicion list (the early talking, mainly bantering, echoing other’s points… and just staying at the backstage). But really nothing to say more...

Pitch – I don’t see why he goes with Eönwë to make issues with totally sensible arguments… suspicious.

Steve – At times he makes very educated suggestions and at times he seems to try and work against our good… A tough one to call.



~~*~~

The 'Downs seem to be down again and it's coming 3AM...

If Sally agrees to post this then you'll have my votes and this post.


So my votes will be.

++ Gwath

++ Inziladun

++ Nerwen

++ Nienna


And don't lynch Brinn either!


If I'd be able to vote for a lynch I would say

lynch Pitchwife

Eönwë has made also good points but Pitch has merely tried to oppose tactics that are good to us.

Of the other two I do suspect somewhat Mira is the more "easy-going" - which might be good or bad - and Izzy is the more visible - in good and bad. Really hard to say about them.

And I do not claim I have the four wolves listed here. But I'd say there must be one, and there might be more.


EDIT: The 'Downs work again!!! Hurray!

[Isabellkya]

I'm going to make my votes in my next post most likely.
Spent forty-five minutes playing the F5 refresh game with the Downs. Don't want to risk that closer to deadline..

[Inziladun]

Since the forum has been acting up for me as well, I'll at least get these done.

++Nog

++Nerwen

++Brinn

With my luck, they're all three wolves, but I just don't see anything to fault them for, and they've been around enough for me to get a bit of a feel for them.

Still not sure of the other one...

[Nogrod]

I was just coming to close my computer when I saw this...

Originally Posted by Inziladun

they've been around enough for me to get a bit of a feel for them.

How can you say Brinn has been around enough? She made one post - which was fine and dandy - but why to say you "got a feel of it"?

I can see one says we shouldn't lose her because she only managed to post once or something as she can be a force the wolves need to reckon with (like I did), but to claim to have a feel from that one post- while several people have posted more and more passionately, and more openly...

Maybe I should rethink my suspicions from scratch?

Blah. 3.30AM. And three of my real votes I can still stand along with.

So hoping to see you toMorrow.

[Loslote]

Here. Reading.

[wilwarin538]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

So how about we come up with a marking of our own to indicate whom everyone of us would like to lynch? I think it would be a good idea if everyone also told the others whom they would like to see lynched already on this Day - and hopefully also why. In that way we could lessen the erratic nature of the last hour choices a little bit more?

Especially if we have people who can only turn out at the last moments of the Day they would have it easier just scrolling the thread and see why some people would like to see some others lynched (if people write long posts and their points are just in the middle of them unmarked a fast skimmer might just miss them).

I think this is a perfectly logical idea. If all we focus on is people we trust then the wolves chould very easily continually vote to protect each other without it being noticeable that they're always protecting each other, at least at first since we all get so many votes. So it may take a bit before we can find any sort of pattern since it's likely that a lot of people will vote similarly anyway. But if we add suspicions in there as well then that's just another piece of data that we can look at for each person. More info the better. Hope that made sense...


At this moment I feel pretty good about Nog and Izzy. Inzil doesn't look to bad either. Eonwe though isn't sitting too well with me for now, just after my quick read through. Everyone else I'm still up in the air with.

I'm gonna skim through again, maybe have some other stuff to say, and then I gotta vote and go to sleep...

x'ed with a few

[Brinniel]

Yeah, working to sniff out the wolves is one way to catch them, but it doesn't always work. How many times has an innocent been wrongly lynched because they look 'suspicious'? The different style of this game is trying to make us look at things with a different perspective, and perhaps we should take advantage of that. If we try to figure out who's innocent rather than evil, then we can use the process of elimination to find the wolves. Of course I know that some wolves could very well fool us and appear innocent...but nothing's perfect. I know at least for me, sometimes I feel like I'm trying so hard to find the suspicious people that I end up voting for players for ridiculous reasons. It's a bit of an experiment but...perhaps if we actually take more time looking at who we don't want to lynch we'll be more successful. If anything, these under-the-radar wolves we might have could be in more danger than usual. Quiet wolves manage to win games by being left unnoticed...but in this game where you need votes in order to survive, you can't just hide in the background the entire game.

If some of you want to stick to the classic strategy and make an unofficial vote of who you want to lynch, then that's fine. Just don't expect everyone else to play the same way.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

So, what do we do about the quiet people toDay? If we ignore them they may get lynched by default– and likely won't be wolves, because the wolves will be trying to look especially helpful.

During these first Days I think we should keep the quiet ones alive, because we can't know whether or not it's due to RL. But if some players continue to lurk in the background throughout the game without reason, then they probably aren't worth saving.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Brinn – spoke sense early on the Day but hasn’t appeared after that. Could be perfect wolvery or just RL busyness… I’d hate to see her gone because of that especially as I have no possibility to see what she might do during the last hours.

Yeah, that'd be RL. I was around for several hours, but of course hardly anyone posted until I left. Don't expect to see a whole lot of me during the game because this is a busy semester and my participation will be limited.

I'll make my first vote now. I'd like to keep Glirdan around. Perhaps it's because I feel sorry for him last game (first game in two and half years and you lynch him on Day 1? yeesh), but it's also been a long time since I played WW online with him and I'd like to have a chance to get familiar with his playing style before seeing him lynched again:

++Glirdan

EDIT: X-ed since Sally

[Nerwen]

Did the site die on anyone else? Because it did for me, and not only that, it ate up a rather long post of mine. I'll do it again (more sketchily, alas). Note: these points may have been raised in the meantime– I haven't had a chance to read the thread yet.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

So how about we come up with a marking of our own to indicate whom everyone of us would like to lynch? I think it would be a good idea if everyone also told the others whom they would like to see lynched already on this Day - and hopefully also why. In that way we could lessen the erratic nature of the last hour choices a little bit more?

But is there any real difference between these dummy-votes and just making a suspicion-list in the normal way? It just seems like an over-complicated variation on something we do anyway. Will it hinder the ability of wolves to keep their paws clean when ordos gets lynched?

So, what do we do about the quiet people toDay? If we ignore them they may get lynched by default– and likely won't be wolves, because the wolves will be trying to look especially helpful.

If we agree to vote for some of them, the wolves may decide to revert to submarining tactics, so we lose that advantage. Thoughts?

EDIT:X'd since... I think Gwath at #83, but I can't quite remember.
EDIT2: word left out.

[wilwarin538]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

So, what do we do about the quiet people toDay? If we ignore them they may get lynched by default– and likely won't be wolves, because the wolves will be trying to look especially helpful.

Right after I posted I thought of this same thing and was about to say it when you did. I think at least 2 of my votes will go to people who haven't posted that much, because I'd rather someone not get lynched simply because they didn't get the chance to post.

[Formendacil]

Okay... sooo... I'm going to make myself a bit more of a target here, because I'm posting, voting, and running... but it seems that when Sally-Mod asked me to play, I mistranslated timezones (apparently 9:00 doesn't translate to 10:00 in my timezone, but to 8:00--I guess I don't live in Boston yet ), and so I can't stick around as late as I thought... and it's a Friday night, and even Internet denizens occasionally have lives.

++ Mirandir
++ Nerwen
++ Eönwë
++ Loslote

Can you guess what they have in common?

I figure I owe it to them for not making me look like a complete idiot--and they are all clearly excited enough to be playing that they were jumping the gun.

x-ed with the Moddess. Okay, maybe I could have got on closer to the deadline. Good timing, Sally.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I was just coming to close my computer when I saw this...
How can you say Brinn has been around enough? She made one post - which was fine and dandy - but why to say you "got a feel of it"?

The one post seemed to have substance, she looked all right, and I'd rather not see her gone just yet. Simple as that.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Did the site die on anyone else? Because it did for me, and not only that, it ate up a rather long post of mine. I'll do it again (more sketchily, alas). Note: these points may have been raised in the meantime– I haven't had a chance to read the thread yet.

The forum has been down off and on today, but when I tried to access the main Barrow Downs site it worked.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

So, what do we do about the quiet people toDay? If we ignore them they may get lynched by default– and likely won't be wolves, because the wolves will be trying to look especially helpful.

At least for the first Day, I guess we're confined to giving a second chance to those we feel deserve it, and hope they'll be around more toMorrow. As for me, I may be leaning toward giving my final vote to Glirdan, simply because it would be a shame for him to die on Day 1 two games in a row, and I really haven't had a chance to see what he's made of.

x/d with 2 phantoms, 2 Wilwas, and a Steve

[satansaloser2005]

Have an extra three hours. Sorry, I wasn't by a computer so I didn't know the site was down.


Repeat. A temporary DL is in effect for toDay only. The DL is now 6 a.m. GMT (in about four hours.)

[wilwarin538]

Ok, gonna do this now thens:

++Glirdan

Cause I don't want the poor kid getting lynched Day 1 again.

++Fea

Cause all she's said was 1 word and I don't want a submarine type to get lynched just for lack of posts.

++Nog

Cause I feel good about him.


Hmmm, gonna rethink a bit of stuff and come back for the 4th in a bit. Might go with another big poster, or someone who hasn't been around much, still not sure.

Keep in mind that no one gets lynched if there's a four way tie. So that's definitely something we want to avoid. Try to spread your votes out a bit people.

[the phantom]

Why tell them to calm down, Nienna? How incredibly boring. The post count isn't that high this game. The last thing you want to encourage is the double-whammy of low posting and boring posting.

And Glirdan, come on. You don't even know how to vote properly? The most basic thing that there is in this little game, and you don't do it? It's like a person who goes to Hollywood to break into showbiz and after years of hard work gets a gig as a background extra- and manages to get fired from that.

And I could paint Gwath with that same brush for his failure to be invisible. Seriously- how does that happen? Did someone shoot you guys with a Noob-ray?

And I still can't believe no one has suggested something interesting, such as- "On Day 2, why don't we all agree to dump three of our four votes immediately on a non-player (e.g. Shasta) and then we'll all have only one single vote with which to save someone from then on. It will make votes more meaningful and make things more tense and encourage bargaining and make lists and such much shorter and easier to keep track of etc etc..."

Come on. Show me something! To this point you lot have been borderline pathetic.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by the phantom

And I still can't believe no one has suggested something interesting, such as- "On Day 2, why don't we all agree to dump three of our four votes immediately on a non-player (e.g. Shasta) and then we'll all have only one single vote with which to save someone from then on. It will make votes more meaningful and make things more tense and encourage bargaining and make lists and such much shorter and easier to keep track of etc etc..."

Erm...

Originally Posted by The Moddess, aka Sally on Admin Thread

Everyone will receive four votes to be used each Day. Not four bonus votes, four votes. You may not use more than one vote on a person and you may not vote for yourself.

Now let me get back to the game without your distractions!

[the phantom]

Extra note: Would you stop with the "here and reading" announcements? I've seen several of those (Wilwa, Nerwen, and Loslote, maybe more), and you don't seem to realize that not everyone is allowed to say that (unless you are within an hour of the deadline).

Why is it necessary to tell everyone you're reading the thread? Isn't everyone? The only way it matters is if it is likely that several other members have been eagerly awaiting your contributions and you wish to inform them that their thirst will soon be quenched. In other words, you have to first prove yourself to be sufficiently noteworthy, awesome, or important in order to post "here and reading".

There are but a few who qualify to use this phrase at any time-
1) revealed gifteds
2) Seer-dreamed proven innocents
3) Mod(s)
4) SPM
5) Phantom

Are you on this list?

Then don't do it.

If at any point during this contest I feel someone has qualified to be added to the list, I will announce it.