Werewolf LXXII: Now There's the Truth of It! (Game Thread)

[Glirdan]

Hey all, I'm here but pretty much just to vote as I have some things I have to do and won't be around for the DL.

However, I will be addressing somethings

Originally Posted by Brin

Oh and Glirdan, did they really lynch you on Day 1 last game? I remember there were a few who joked about lynching you Day 1, but I didn't think they'd actually do it. Meanies.

Yes, yes they did...the jerks.

Originally Posted by Brin

I'd imagine spreading out our votes would be the smarter thing to do. If several players make all four votes at once at the end of the Day, that could lead to disaster.

And yet sometimes it is unavoidable...like in my case currently as I will probably be making my votes within the next hour.

And speaking of votes, I will make one right now for:

++Nogrod

He has been quite helpful from everything that I've read thus far. Clear, concise, logical thoughts.

I really wish I had more time to vote and read ( ), but I will be leaving quite soon and actually have company at the moment. I will be back on (well I hope to anyways) before I have to leave to vote at least once more.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Glirdan

And speaking of votes, I will make one right now for:

++Nogrod

Needs to be highlighted, Glirdy.

[Nogrod]

Possible votes of confidence

Brinn – spoke sense early on the Day but hasn’t appeared after that. Could be perfect wolvery or just RL busyness… I’d hate to see her gone because of that especially as I have no possibility to see what she might do during the last hours.

Dun – Seems to be sensical and bold enough to take sides on some issues. Good for me.

Gwath – speaks sense indeed. He would be a terribly effective wolf or then an ordo. I’m leaning on the latter for D1.

Nerwen – mainly to the point and anyway too valuable to lose on D1…

Nienna – Seems collected and to the point. I like her posting, it feels well-intended and is reasoned.

I can't vote all five, but my four votes will most probably go for four of them.

As I said, we better use all our votes - hey Glirdan, use them all! The more votes we have cast the lesser the risk that we do not manage to lynch anyone.



The less trusted ones... but not actually suspicious enough I'd like to see them lynched.

Fea – one post total, saying “Marco?” C'mon Fea!

Form – the first poster, leaning towards innocent thus far (although looking at the scope of the explanation it looks a bit overdone).

Glirdan – kind of perfect wolf-strategy: being there but not much said to stir controversy. Looking at his “comeback” ending up in early deaths I’d hate to see him gone on D1 though.

Lottie – she’s a problem for me. The intervention back there on the wrong start is not thoroughly innocent-looking as it would be such a nice idea for a wolf to do but then again I have nothing else on her so it might be just pure “what if”?

Rune – more or less the same as with Glirdan… I’d hate to see him gone with that little to be said on him – even if that would be the best wolf tactics in this game.

Wilwa – she’s had not much time so far I can see, but soo reasonable and careful! If I hadn’t promised I’ll not suspect her firsthand I’d suspect her, but now I think I’ll just have to leave it at that.



The ones I do suspect more or less...

Izzy – I don’t like her suggestion that we should skip lynching someone today. Also even if I’m not willing to put “all those and only those” people into the firing-line who posted prematurely, her defence of them as a lot makes me wonder, like she’s downplaying the chance there was a wolf in there? Her latest looks sensible again… gah.

Mira – the odd one out for me. Her actions might win her a place in my suspicion list (the early talking, mainly bantering, echoing other’s points… and just staying at the backstage). But really nothing to say more...

Pitch – I don’t see why he goes with Eönwë to make issues with totally sensible arguments… suspicious.

Steve – At times he makes very educated suggestions and at times he seems to try and work against our good… A tough one to call.



~~*~~

The 'Downs seem to be down again and it's coming 3AM...

If Sally agrees to post this then you'll have my votes and this post.


So my votes will be.

++ Gwath

++ Inziladun

++ Nerwen

++ Nienna


And don't lynch Brinn either!


If I'd be able to vote for a lynch I would say

lynch Pitchwife

Eönwë has made also good points but Pitch has merely tried to oppose tactics that are good to us.

Of the other two I do suspect somewhat Mira is the more "easy-going" - which might be good or bad - and Izzy is the more visible - in good and bad. Really hard to say about them.

And I do not claim I have the four wolves listed here. But I'd say there must be one, and there might be more.


EDIT: The 'Downs work again!!! Hurray!

[Isabellkya]

I'm going to make my votes in my next post most likely.
Spent forty-five minutes playing the F5 refresh game with the Downs. Don't want to risk that closer to deadline..

[Inziladun]

Since the forum has been acting up for me as well, I'll at least get these done.

++Nog

++Nerwen

++Brinn

With my luck, they're all three wolves, but I just don't see anything to fault them for, and they've been around enough for me to get a bit of a feel for them.

Still not sure of the other one...

[Nogrod]

I was just coming to close my computer when I saw this...

Originally Posted by Inziladun

they've been around enough for me to get a bit of a feel for them.

How can you say Brinn has been around enough? She made one post - which was fine and dandy - but why to say you "got a feel of it"?

I can see one says we shouldn't lose her because she only managed to post once or something as she can be a force the wolves need to reckon with (like I did), but to claim to have a feel from that one post- while several people have posted more and more passionately, and more openly...

Maybe I should rethink my suspicions from scratch?

Blah. 3.30AM. And three of my real votes I can still stand along with.

So hoping to see you toMorrow.

[Loslote]

Here. Reading.

[wilwarin538]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

So how about we come up with a marking of our own to indicate whom everyone of us would like to lynch? I think it would be a good idea if everyone also told the others whom they would like to see lynched already on this Day - and hopefully also why. In that way we could lessen the erratic nature of the last hour choices a little bit more?

Especially if we have people who can only turn out at the last moments of the Day they would have it easier just scrolling the thread and see why some people would like to see some others lynched (if people write long posts and their points are just in the middle of them unmarked a fast skimmer might just miss them).

I think this is a perfectly logical idea. If all we focus on is people we trust then the wolves chould very easily continually vote to protect each other without it being noticeable that they're always protecting each other, at least at first since we all get so many votes. So it may take a bit before we can find any sort of pattern since it's likely that a lot of people will vote similarly anyway. But if we add suspicions in there as well then that's just another piece of data that we can look at for each person. More info the better. Hope that made sense...


At this moment I feel pretty good about Nog and Izzy. Inzil doesn't look to bad either. Eonwe though isn't sitting too well with me for now, just after my quick read through. Everyone else I'm still up in the air with.

I'm gonna skim through again, maybe have some other stuff to say, and then I gotta vote and go to sleep...

x'ed with a few

[Brinniel]

Yeah, working to sniff out the wolves is one way to catch them, but it doesn't always work. How many times has an innocent been wrongly lynched because they look 'suspicious'? The different style of this game is trying to make us look at things with a different perspective, and perhaps we should take advantage of that. If we try to figure out who's innocent rather than evil, then we can use the process of elimination to find the wolves. Of course I know that some wolves could very well fool us and appear innocent...but nothing's perfect. I know at least for me, sometimes I feel like I'm trying so hard to find the suspicious people that I end up voting for players for ridiculous reasons. It's a bit of an experiment but...perhaps if we actually take more time looking at who we don't want to lynch we'll be more successful. If anything, these under-the-radar wolves we might have could be in more danger than usual. Quiet wolves manage to win games by being left unnoticed...but in this game where you need votes in order to survive, you can't just hide in the background the entire game.

If some of you want to stick to the classic strategy and make an unofficial vote of who you want to lynch, then that's fine. Just don't expect everyone else to play the same way.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

So, what do we do about the quiet people toDay? If we ignore them they may get lynched by default– and likely won't be wolves, because the wolves will be trying to look especially helpful.

During these first Days I think we should keep the quiet ones alive, because we can't know whether or not it's due to RL. But if some players continue to lurk in the background throughout the game without reason, then they probably aren't worth saving.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Brinn – spoke sense early on the Day but hasn’t appeared after that. Could be perfect wolvery or just RL busyness… I’d hate to see her gone because of that especially as I have no possibility to see what she might do during the last hours.

Yeah, that'd be RL. I was around for several hours, but of course hardly anyone posted until I left. Don't expect to see a whole lot of me during the game because this is a busy semester and my participation will be limited.

I'll make my first vote now. I'd like to keep Glirdan around. Perhaps it's because I feel sorry for him last game (first game in two and half years and you lynch him on Day 1? yeesh), but it's also been a long time since I played WW online with him and I'd like to have a chance to get familiar with his playing style before seeing him lynched again:

++Glirdan

EDIT: X-ed since Sally

[Nerwen]

Did the site die on anyone else? Because it did for me, and not only that, it ate up a rather long post of mine. I'll do it again (more sketchily, alas). Note: these points may have been raised in the meantime– I haven't had a chance to read the thread yet.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

So how about we come up with a marking of our own to indicate whom everyone of us would like to lynch? I think it would be a good idea if everyone also told the others whom they would like to see lynched already on this Day - and hopefully also why. In that way we could lessen the erratic nature of the last hour choices a little bit more?

But is there any real difference between these dummy-votes and just making a suspicion-list in the normal way? It just seems like an over-complicated variation on something we do anyway. Will it hinder the ability of wolves to keep their paws clean when ordos gets lynched?

So, what do we do about the quiet people toDay? If we ignore them they may get lynched by default– and likely won't be wolves, because the wolves will be trying to look especially helpful.

If we agree to vote for some of them, the wolves may decide to revert to submarining tactics, so we lose that advantage. Thoughts?

EDIT:X'd since... I think Gwath at #83, but I can't quite remember.
EDIT2: word left out.

[wilwarin538]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

So, what do we do about the quiet people toDay? If we ignore them they may get lynched by default– and likely won't be wolves, because the wolves will be trying to look especially helpful.

Right after I posted I thought of this same thing and was about to say it when you did. I think at least 2 of my votes will go to people who haven't posted that much, because I'd rather someone not get lynched simply because they didn't get the chance to post.

[Formendacil]

Okay... sooo... I'm going to make myself a bit more of a target here, because I'm posting, voting, and running... but it seems that when Sally-Mod asked me to play, I mistranslated timezones (apparently 9:00 doesn't translate to 10:00 in my timezone, but to 8:00--I guess I don't live in Boston yet ), and so I can't stick around as late as I thought... and it's a Friday night, and even Internet denizens occasionally have lives.

++ Mirandir
++ Nerwen
++ Eönwë
++ Loslote

Can you guess what they have in common?

I figure I owe it to them for not making me look like a complete idiot--and they are all clearly excited enough to be playing that they were jumping the gun.

x-ed with the Moddess. Okay, maybe I could have got on closer to the deadline. Good timing, Sally.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I was just coming to close my computer when I saw this...
How can you say Brinn has been around enough? She made one post - which was fine and dandy - but why to say you "got a feel of it"?

The one post seemed to have substance, she looked all right, and I'd rather not see her gone just yet. Simple as that.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Did the site die on anyone else? Because it did for me, and not only that, it ate up a rather long post of mine. I'll do it again (more sketchily, alas). Note: these points may have been raised in the meantime– I haven't had a chance to read the thread yet.

The forum has been down off and on today, but when I tried to access the main Barrow Downs site it worked.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

So, what do we do about the quiet people toDay? If we ignore them they may get lynched by default– and likely won't be wolves, because the wolves will be trying to look especially helpful.

At least for the first Day, I guess we're confined to giving a second chance to those we feel deserve it, and hope they'll be around more toMorrow. As for me, I may be leaning toward giving my final vote to Glirdan, simply because it would be a shame for him to die on Day 1 two games in a row, and I really haven't had a chance to see what he's made of.

x/d with 2 phantoms, 2 Wilwas, and a Steve

[satansaloser2005]

Have an extra three hours. Sorry, I wasn't by a computer so I didn't know the site was down.


Repeat. A temporary DL is in effect for toDay only. The DL is now 6 a.m. GMT (in about four hours.)

[wilwarin538]

Ok, gonna do this now thens:

++Glirdan

Cause I don't want the poor kid getting lynched Day 1 again.

++Fea

Cause all she's said was 1 word and I don't want a submarine type to get lynched just for lack of posts.

++Nog

Cause I feel good about him.


Hmmm, gonna rethink a bit of stuff and come back for the 4th in a bit. Might go with another big poster, or someone who hasn't been around much, still not sure.

Keep in mind that no one gets lynched if there's a four way tie. So that's definitely something we want to avoid. Try to spread your votes out a bit people.

[the phantom]

Why tell them to calm down, Nienna? How incredibly boring. The post count isn't that high this game. The last thing you want to encourage is the double-whammy of low posting and boring posting.

And Glirdan, come on. You don't even know how to vote properly? The most basic thing that there is in this little game, and you don't do it? It's like a person who goes to Hollywood to break into showbiz and after years of hard work gets a gig as a background extra- and manages to get fired from that.

And I could paint Gwath with that same brush for his failure to be invisible. Seriously- how does that happen? Did someone shoot you guys with a Noob-ray?

And I still can't believe no one has suggested something interesting, such as- "On Day 2, why don't we all agree to dump three of our four votes immediately on a non-player (e.g. Shasta) and then we'll all have only one single vote with which to save someone from then on. It will make votes more meaningful and make things more tense and encourage bargaining and make lists and such much shorter and easier to keep track of etc etc..."

Come on. Show me something! To this point you lot have been borderline pathetic.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by the phantom

And I still can't believe no one has suggested something interesting, such as- "On Day 2, why don't we all agree to dump three of our four votes immediately on a non-player (e.g. Shasta) and then we'll all have only one single vote with which to save someone from then on. It will make votes more meaningful and make things more tense and encourage bargaining and make lists and such much shorter and easier to keep track of etc etc..."

Erm...

Originally Posted by The Moddess, aka Sally on Admin Thread

Everyone will receive four votes to be used each Day. Not four bonus votes, four votes. You may not use more than one vote on a person and you may not vote for yourself.

Now let me get back to the game without your distractions!

[the phantom]

Extra note: Would you stop with the "here and reading" announcements? I've seen several of those (Wilwa, Nerwen, and Loslote, maybe more), and you don't seem to realize that not everyone is allowed to say that (unless you are within an hour of the deadline).

Why is it necessary to tell everyone you're reading the thread? Isn't everyone? The only way it matters is if it is likely that several other members have been eagerly awaiting your contributions and you wish to inform them that their thirst will soon be quenched. In other words, you have to first prove yourself to be sufficiently noteworthy, awesome, or important in order to post "here and reading".

There are but a few who qualify to use this phrase at any time-
1) revealed gifteds
2) Seer-dreamed proven innocents
3) Mod(s)
4) SPM
5) Phantom

Are you on this list?

Then don't do it.

If at any point during this contest I feel someone has qualified to be added to the list, I will announce it.

[the phantom]

Oh good gravy, Steve- you honestly think that the quote from Sally disqualifies the plan? All it says is that you must spread your votes, hence you do not put all three votes on Shasta (he was just one example), but rather one on Shasta, one on Phantom, etc...

And if you don't want to vote for non-players, just agree on a plan to dump your first three votes on each other and forge a massive tie.

Plus didn't I already tell someone earlier not to be a ruler-kisser? It's really lame.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Oh good gravy, Steve- you honestly think that the quote from Sally disqualifies the plan? All it says is that you must spread your votes, hence you do not put all three votes on Shasta (he was just one example), but rather one on Shasta, one on Phantom, etc...

And if you don't want to vote for non-players, just agree on a plan to dump your first three votes on each other and forge a massive tie.

Plus didn't I already tell someone earlier not to be a ruler-kisser? It's really lame.

Don't give them ideas!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

What's the point of first applauding the ingenuity of this game, then suggesting to introduce a classical lynch vote through the back door? Who gets no vote is lynched, period. No need for any extra votes or markings (unless you want to confuse poor alona, who's suffered quite enough recently by having her heart eaten and all that).

Going with the point Eönwë made about modified wolvish behaviour in #48, I must say most of you are acting much too reasonable and eager to help for my peace of mind right now (not that I'm a shiny exception myself, I suppose). Obviously you can't all be wolves, but at the moment I'm tempted to vote for one or two of the quieter and weirder people, just in case.

Nonsense. When you're a wolf, you become Mr. Agreeable. I haven't seen that yet. Unlike Pitchwolf, you seem to be somewhat confrontational...though that may just be this game.

I'm probably going to vote Nog, Nienna, and Zil. They all look pretty innocent to me. Not sure about the fourth yet...probably a quiet person I don't think is a wolf but probably won't get many votes so may get lynched.

EDIT: xed since Zil.

[wilwarin538]

So a very quick scan through and so I'm gonna go with:

++Lottie

Everyone who still hasn't voted I just want to reiterate what I just said. 4 way tie and we don't get a lynch. The votes so far do seem fairly spread out, which is good, but hopefully a vote count shows up soon and people can keep the tie thing in mind. Yes, I'm paranoid about a no lynch, I'm also paranoid that one of those people with 1 or 2 votes are going to get lynched just because they went unnoticed, and that's not really a concrete basis for lynching.

Anyway, I spent all morning with a bunch of hyper 4 year olds so I'm kind of exhausted, gonna go sleep now. Good luck!

x'ed with Lottie and Brinn

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

I'm not entirely sure as to why people are thinking this is way different than "normal". Quite often, when people vote - it comes down to a "whomever is left".

People will makes lists of their thoughts on every player, putting into categories of "innocentish, won't lynch, slightly suspicious.." etc. Then voting for a person whom either they find suspicious, or whomever is "left over" and they've "no idea about".

You have a point there– at least if you're talking about Day Ones only. After that we generally have more to go on.

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

Here, we are just placing our votes with/on/for people whom we want to keep around. Not entirely different than making lists. By voting for whom you want to keep around, it already shows whom you may think is suspicious indirectly.

But much too indirectly– at least in this stage of the game, when there are so many players. The big problem we have is that the lynch-result may not give us much information– the wolves can help get an ordo lynched simply by doing nothing, and then claim they never suspected the victim at all.

Originally Posted by the phantom

Extra note: Would you stop with the "here and reading" announcements? I've seen several of those (Wilwa, Nerwen, and Loslote, maybe more), and you don't seem to realize that not everyone is allowed to say that (unless you are within an hour of the deadline).

*has sudden urge to spam the thread with 500 "here and reading" posts*

EDIT:X'd with a host.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Plus didn't I already tell someone earlier not to be a ruler-kisser? It's really lame.

Yeah, but here there wasn't any benefit to be had, and if there was then obviously I was being selfish and making sure no-one else could get it.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

Yeah, but here there wasn't any benefit to be had, and if there was then obviously I was being selfish and making sure no-one else could get it.

Why do you argue with The Phantom? You must know no one can possibly come off well.

EDIT: xed with Nienna.