T-I-G WW LXXIV: War of the Wolves

[Pitchwife]

I can only concur with everything my dear packmate has said above. Nice game design, Lottie - I think the two Unicorns (I was the Werecorn, of course) more or less balanced out the high percentage of wolves, as both packs were anxious not to kill them, and Nog's reveal didn't make life any easier for us, either. And I loved the laconic minimalism of your narrations!

I'm happy to return Zil's compliments. His perceptions of people were most astute - e.g. he pegged Legate as a likely member of the rival pack after Day 1, based on the way he'd been suspecting me (assuming the Aphid Seer had dreamt me) and made a sound and elaborate case for TEW's innocence (a splendid counterpart to his attack on the thread!) in Night 4, when Kit's daring double wolf-on-wolf against Legate and Boro had made me waver about my gut-feeling that TEW was the Innocorn. (You really should post our PMs! Or I can do it, if you haven't saved them all.) And it was quite nice for both of us to know for once we were on the same side.
If Zil had his night of agony in Night 3, it was my turn to come close to despair in Night 4. I wasn't sure how the Unicorn role would affect the endgame - i.e. if the Innocorn was the last innocent standing, could we claim victory or would we have to kill him and go through the motions again the next Day with a revived ordo? - , and both of us feared that the Aphid Seer had dreamed one of us and, to avoid a Unicorn revival, would go for Zil, who couldn't protect himself that Night; I dreaded the perspective of being the last wolf in the endgame and thought the best I could hope to achieve would be a draw. It was Zil who reminded me that the Seerwolf couldn't see our gifts and was just as likely to target me - as it turned out to be.

Lommy, it must have sucked for you to go so early, but I hope it's a comfort that we avenged you. Very well seered, and well played - I hope you didn't mind that I stole some of your ideas from our Nightly discussion *coughHunterrevealingasSeercough*. (For the record, Lommy's other candidates for the Night 1 dream were Kit and Nerwen, both of which would have been splendid choices as well.)

All in all, I enjoyed being part of this pack very much - although I wouldn't have minded being teamed up with any of the Aphids, either. Unlike your insect counterparts, you were formidable opponents, Legate and Boro - and Kit fooled my innocent persona totally. (For curiosity's sake, Kit, what were your dreams?)

wilwa, all I can say is your co-victory was thoroughly deserved.

Nog, I have to agree with Boro that this was a model Seer performance. Actually, your assessments of TEW and Kit were a big help to us figuring out which was which last Night!
And à propos,

Originally Posted by Lottie

If anyone wants to know, Noggie dreamed of Pitchie his last Night. Good seer. *pets Noggie*

Not quite "Of course you would" this time, but I had a strong feeling you might, and therefore was quite adamant we had to kill you now or never.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

I'm still kicking myself. The Night I died, I had a shortlist of people to hunt: Boro, Kit, Pitch, Legate... and Sally.

Wow. Or rather, Phew! We were quite right to fear you.

Originally Posted by Izzy

I kind of suspected the innocents would lose, seems to happen every time I am the Ranger.. Eeeek.
Haha. I had thought about forgoing the protection on Nog Night 2, but whenever I gamble, the opposite tends to happen. So, I figured protecting him was better than losing him. And just envisioned the Princess Bride in my head.

Don't blame yourself, I'd absolutely have done the same in your shoes.

sally, kudos for being spot on about me on Day 1 - that was a nasty trap you caught me in, I was tremendously relieved when Nerwen got rid of you for me. And

Originally Posted by sally

whoever left the anonymous neg rep for doing the moddess' bidding

can't have been in your last game; I think it should have been obvious you'd got a post mortem assignment, similar to the phantom's Heckler role. Thanks for co-modding, too!

TEWie, you really did very very well - I mean, not only correctly identifying the four remaining wolves, but also their respective packs! And although I wavered a bit about you and Kit for a while, it would have truly surprised me if you'd turned out a rival wolf, you felt so innocent to me.

Good job, everybody - including Shasta and Morsul; sorry both of you had to go so early (but then again, not really *wolvish grin*).

Finally,

Originally Posted by Zil

"Mr. Agreeable", indeed.

That's gonna stick with me for good now, I guess. I'll just have to live with it...

[Kitanna]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

when Kit's daring double wolf-on-wolf against Legate and [B]Boro

There I was trying to look suspicious enough to lead the crowd away from my packmates and it totally backfired. Who knew Legate was going to be a dream or that Boro made a better lynch candidate than me. Image my surprise coming home from work two different days to find my packmates dead.

(For curiosity's sake, Kit, what were your dreams?)

Morsul, Sally, Wilwa, and Pitch.

[Nogrod]

That was fun! *bowstoLottie*

And looking at all these "revelations" one just realises how close it was, so many times, to take the game into a totally another direction. So small margins...

And my apologies to Lommy also online (done that in RL already). But I just had to check her first as she and Greenie (both my daughters, to anyone who doesn't know it yet) are to me the hardest to fathom as I tend to either over- or under-suspect them everytime.

Legate I had a hunch over, mainly from his carefulness (which he always is - and very skilful indeed!) and of his relation to Lommy. First I thought they were in cahoots but later I started to think it more probable they were probing each other because they were on different sides.

On Day2 I came actually so confident of Kit being a wolf (because of her sudden and poorly reasoned attack on Legate - and I of course knew he was a wolf that time but she didn't know I knew - so I thought she knew Legate was on the opposing side) that I didn't feel it important enough to dream of her. But looking how Pitch trailed her suspicion being careful enough not to look like he was actually "driving" it made me very suspicious of him of being Kit's mate (with Lommy as the third one on their team - heh, the one who checked Legate on N1 of course, and that was why Kit & Pitch knew he was an enemy... )

So as you see: one can pick the right people from the way they act and build totally believable explanations for their acts based on totally wrong reasoning!

Well done Ladybugs!

And you really had some tough luck there Aphids! I just don't understand how Boro got lynched in the first place...

But the unluckiest of all I think were us innocents: such a bloodbath! Looking at the carnage from N1 I was really happy I had revealed already on D1. It was just as messy as I feared it could be. But well fought, looking at the circumstances. And don't worry Izzy, it tends to go that way: when you risk as the ranger the wolves seem to act straightforwardly and vice versa. It just tends to go that way.

[Thinlómien]

Yay! Go Zil and Pitch! *hugs them and does a bug-y dance*

Yes, for me this game wasn't the most pleasant, because on Night1 I was like "yay I'm playing ww! yay nice pack! yay I dreamt of the seer!" and on Day1 I was like "yay I'm playing ww! yay I'm quite convincingly innocent-looking! oh sh**, Nogrod dreamt of me!!!!!!!!!!!"

Anyway, I'm glad if I gave some ideas in the Nightly discussions and created confusion that my packmates could use to their advantage.

Thanks for the game, Lottie. I have to confess I didn't read anything properly after I died, but looks like people were playing well. It was fun as long as it lasted!

ps. *points at signature*

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Hey, it's a seriously intimidating name if you happen to be an aphid.

See? Prophetic names, they were.

Heh, I forgot about their interspecies antagonism.

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Bwahahahaha, mine is an evil laugh, etc. (Also, thanks to Lottie herself of course for letting me/telling me to have fun post-mortem. I did in fact enjoy myself, even if I didn't do a whole lot of consequence in the game.)

I still say Charlie the Unicorn's friends are downright disturbing.

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

Haha. I had thought about forgoing the protection on Nog Night 2, but whenever I gamble, the opposite tends to happen. So, I figured protecting him was better than losing him. And just envisioned the Princess Bride in my head.

I don't think I could take that gamble as a Ranger. 'A bird in the hand'...etc.

Originally Posted by Loslote

And then their titles kept including Ladybug Pack.

Well, with you dealing with two packs we wanted to make sure there was no confusion.

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

That's gonna stick with me for good now, I guess. I'll just have to live with it...

Well, "Mr. Agreeable" isn't so bad. at least we aren't calling you "Stan".

Originally Posted by Nogrod

But looking how Pitch trailed her suspicion being careful enough not to look like he was actually "driving" it made me very suspicious of him of being Kit's mate (with Lommy as the third one on their team - heh, the one who checked Legate on N1 of course, and that was why Kit & Pitch knew he was an enemy...

And there I was so sure I'd be your likely dream, with the way you were attacking my suspicion of TEW (supported by Pitch!).

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Yes, for me this game wasn't the most pleasant, because on Night1 I was like "yay I'm playing ww! yay nice pack! yay I dreamt of the seer!" and on Day1 I was like "yay I'm playing ww! yay I'm quite convincingly innocent-looking! oh sh**, Nogrod dreamt of me!!!!!!!!!!!"

Indeed I thought you were looking quite good on Day 1. All that work, only to be taken out by the work of a Seer on a mission.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Hi there too, and let me say I'm quite delighted to be a member of this particular pack!

I'm the WereUnicorn and was told to 'try very very hard not to die', for obvious reasons. I suppose that makes Zil our RangerWolf - but I've got to admit I'm a little confused as to the definitive version of the Rules.

I was thinking the same. In my first game as a wolf, I discovered that I find wolf-on-wolfing much easier than making cases against known innocents...

Well, if it was me, my first pick would be Nerwen (especially after last game), but Nog or Kit would be good choices as well.
What's quite nice is that while you can't see the gifts of the enemy wolves, you can still see innocent gifteds (if I understand the Rules correctly), which is something to keep in mind after Day1. (Not that you need to be told, but I just thought I'd mention it anyway.

I'm asking myself what should be our strategy towards the other pack, if we can sniff them out - keep them around for a while, let them help us reduce the number of innocents but risk getting bitten by the mouth we're feeding, or get rid of them in time before they can help the innocents reduce our numbers? (It's more or less the same question as with a Werebear.) In the long run, of course, we want to Kill Them All...

That's all for now, but if you'd like to talk, I guess I'll be awake for another hour or so.

Greetings,
Pitch

Meeting and greeting, talking of possible dream-picks for Lommy, and how to treat the Aphids.

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Sounds like the logical thing to do when you're a Seer who can't reveal... (But see my last about the strategy question.)
À propos, it just occurs to me that the Innocent Seer may have a hard time if they choose to reveal - even if they get a wolf lynched, the other innocents have no way of telling their own Seer from a wolvish one. That could be used to our favour, if one of us has the bad luck to get dreamed.

Seconded.

-Pitch

Discussing what to do if Lommy dreamed a rival wolf. Didn't need to spend so much time on it, in retrospect. And I like that about it being hard for the real Seer to reveal.

And of course:

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

If we manage to do it easily, let's get Nogrod lynched toMorrow: he is the goodie seer.

Otherwise, let's just let him be and kill him on Night2. No panic about getting him lynched though, we have plenty time and now we know to be wary...

I'm off to sleep now, so good night and good Day! See you around on the thread...

-Lommiewolf

Plenty of time. So we thought...

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

As I said in my last, my feeling is that two packs or one make less of a difference to the Ranger logistics than the question of his alignment, but all that is more or less academic. If I were the Ranger, I'd protect him, period.

My only worry is that the other pack thinks the same, nobody goes after him and it turns out later he wasn't guarded after all, in which case I'll eat my keyboard (which has already got some fang marks from previous games). But yeah, the more I think about it the more I agree with you. Let's keep him for next Night.

Actually, I'm sure you've noticed there's hardly anybody in this village who isn't either a wolf or gifted or endowed with a secret role. But good point about Nerwen - if I were the Seer, she'd have been my first pick. And it would be nice if we could spoil Nog's second dream by killing his target and having their role revealed before he can do it.

OK, among these three, I'd choose Nerwen - mainly for sporting reasons (Tewie hasn't played for a long time, and Boro died early in his last few games), but also because she's the most dangerous.

Another thing - just in case one of us gets dreamed next, the other obviously shouldn't make any stupid rescue attempts, rather push what's falling and see to their own survival. But after that, the survivor might try to discredit Nog as a wolf-seer who only delivers wolves from the rival pack. Needs to be done carefully, though.

And that's it for now. See you toMorrow on the thread.
Pitch

Of course, what to do about Nog was the main topic of discussion. Once we'd decided to let him be, that was our thought process in choosing who we would kill. I find it truly amazing both packs ended up with the same kill-choice, completely independant of one another. That must simply speak for Nerwen's fear-factor.

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I still say Charlie the Unicorn's friends are downright disturbing.

So they are, now that I've found the time to look at all of sally's links.

Originally Posted by the above

Well, "Mr. Agreeable" isn't so bad. at least we aren't calling you "Stan".

The latter's taken (sort of), but in RL I'm more or less Stan to my beloved's Ollie...

Originally Posted by -"-

And there I was so sure I'd be your likely dream, with the way you were attacking my suspicion of TEW (supported by Pitch!).

I told you he wouldn't need a dream to go for you...

Originally Posted by -"-@Lommy

Indeed I thought you were looking quite good on Day 1.

So did I, I don't know I'd have seen anything furry about you if I'd been an innocent.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Legate I had a hunch over, mainly from his carefulness (which he always is - and very skilful indeed!) and of his relation to Lommy. First I thought they were in cahoots but later I started to think it more probable they were probing each other because they were on different sides.

Relation! Once again wonderful when people suspect you for completely imagined and thus illogical (from your point of view) reasons: There never was any!

Nevertheless, it was quite fun to play after a long time, I must say, and well, had it not been for the unfortunate Seer incident (and later for the unfortunate incident with Boro after I was dead), I would have been quite happy. But well, the game did not seem really very unbalanced in the end, provided that Nogrod however has done a remarkable job (although again - 50-50 to dream of a Wolf is not so difficult). Something small to the innocents' side and they could have even won (well, if the Anti-Lover joined them, they just as well could have).

So thanks for the moddies (and the rest of annoying sallys ) and all the players, including my poor packmates - it was much fun even for the short time there.

And one note: my repeated expressions of paranoia about Pitchwife was genuine, I knew from the beginning something is terribly wrong with him. I was actually thinking that he might be the other Wolf Seer, but in any case, I knew he was a Wolf. There was no doubt about that.