How did Gollum escape from Moria ?

[PrinceOfTheHalflings]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

Would Gollum have been trapped? I mean there are no waters (That I know of) in Moria that house fish. So he probably would have eaten Goblins as he did time to time in his old abode. He would have had to learn secret hidden ways. I understand the East Gate was protected by the bridge but at the same time it creates a tough point of advance for an outgoing army as well. They probably had special Outswinging doors hidden along the exit way. Which he found and frequented in his hunt.

There had to be food. The Orcs ate something, so Gollum probably just stole some of that. He may have also snacked on the occasional unwary Orc. Actually he did steal food from the Orcs - Tolkien says so. I will provide the quote later in this post.

Gollum may have been more familiar with Moria than Aragorn or Gandalf since he'd actually spent more time in there. He was also more accustomed to padding around in dark places than they were. I daresay he preferred places like that. The only problem about being in Moria for Gollum was that it was stopping him from getting the Ring, at least until the Fellowship showed up.

What a welcome surprise that must have been for Gollum!

I imagine that after the destruction of the Chamber of Mazarbul he must have reasoned that heading for the exit was a sound idea. He should have realised that the Fellowship were fairly close to escaping and so hoped that they were aware of this fact too.

Could Gollum have escaped via the East Gate? Well, why not - if that's how he got into Moria! He was originally using Moria to travel from East to West - he tried to get out via the West Gate, but could not push the doors open. Tolkien says that it generally took two people to push the doors open and that Gollum was weak at that time from lack of food. Gollum got into Moria from the East. Either via the East Gate itself or some other less obvious entrance. So if Gollum could get into Moria from the East side, without being detected by the Orcs, which he did - then he could get out that way. There's no real problem or inconsistency here. If he got in that way, then he can get out that way.

The reason why Gollum didn't simply try to escape via this eastern route before is because he was heading for the Shire, which is in the west.

Let's read what the Good Professor says in Unfinished Tales, The Hunt for the Ring:

"...He was peculiarly fitted to survive in such straits, though at cost of great misery; but he was in great peril of discovery by the servants of Sauron that lurked in Moria, especially since such bare necessity of food as he must have he could only get by thieving dangerously. No doubt he had intended to use Moria simply as a secret passage westward, his purpose being to find "Shire" himself as quickly as he could; but he became lost, and it was a very long time before he found his way about.

It thus seems probable that he had not long made his way towards the West-gate when the Nine Walkers arrived. He knew nothing, of course, about the action of the doors. To him they would seem huge and immovable; and though they had no lock or bar and opened outwards to a thrust, he did not discover that. In any case he was now far away from any source of food, for the Orcs were mostly in the East-end of Moria, and was become weak and desperate, so that even if he had known all about the doors he still could not have thrust them open. It was thus a piece of singular good fortune for Gollum that the Nine Walkers arrived when they did."

If we think that the East Gate was too well guarded for Gollum to escape, then we can also assume that it was too well guarded for him to have entered that way in the first place - about five months earlier in August 3018. There must have been another way that didn't involve crossing the bridge - otherwise how could he have ever gotten into Moria?

[Findegil]

I doubt that there was another entrance to Moria from the East beside the main doors that the fellowship used. The bridge of Moria would also be useless as a protection if there had been a second way around it.

But the destroyed bridge did not stop the orks from coming after the fellowship once the sun was down. I assume that they bridge the chasam as they had done before with the firefill trenches in the hall: Trolls bringing large stone plates.
And by the same way Gollum can have passed. There was no orc-guard on the brige when the fellowship arrived, so why should there be a guard on the new 'brige' after they escaped?

The doors seemed not to be guarded very well either. As already mentioned Gollum sliped in unseen once before and the Fellowship had no big problem fighting their way out.

We also have to consider that there passed about 6 hours between the escape of the Fellowship and the time when the orc pursuer followed them. That is certainly enough time to find some lazy moment of an Orc-guard to slip by unseen for Gollum.

Respectfully
Findegil

[alatar]

Originally Posted by PrinceOfTheHalflings

In any case he was now far away from any source of food, for the Orcs were mostly in the East-end of Moria, and was become weak and desperate, so that even if he had known all about the doors he still could not have thrust them open.

Originally Posted by Findegil

We also have to consider that there passed about 6 hours between the escape of the Fellowship and the time when the orc pursuer followed them. That is certainly enough time to find some lazy moment of an Orc-guard to slip by unseen for Gollum.

Even if we concede that Gollum arrives at the East Gate, he still must pursue a highly motivated Fellowship, who is not only running away from Moria as fast as possible, but also are continually looking back to check for pursuit. Gollum not only maintains a tail on the Fellowship, but arrives at the outskirts of Lorien shortly after the Fellowship does, meaning that Yellow Face nor Gollum's physical condition wasn't much of a deterrent.

[Rumil]

Evening all,

another factor to throw into the mix is Gollum's climbing ability.

When caught by Frodo and Sam he was climbing down a rockface headfirst and described somewhere as 'like a spider' so he was evidently really good at rock climbing. Probably a mix of low body weight plus a very strong grip, and long fingers.

If he had to follow the Fellowship after the bridge was destroyed perhaps he climbed around the edge of the room to cross the chasm?

[Lastande Took]

Originally Posted by Rumil

Evening all,

another factor to throw into the mix is Gollum's climbing ability.

When caught by Frodo and Sam he was climbing down a rockface headfirst and described somewhere as 'like a spider' so he was evidently really good at rock climbing. Probably a mix of low body weight plus a very strong grip, and long fingers.

If he had to follow the Fellowship after the bridge was destroyed perhaps he climbed around the edge of the room to cross the chasm?

That's an idea. It doesn't seem likely that the Dwarves would try to smooth stone walls they couldn't reach, so Gollum likely found plenty of hand-holds. My question is: was the Ring enough of a lure for Gollum to try climbing on a (presumably) sheer rockface over a nearly infinite chasm? Wouldn't he try some other way first?

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Lastande Took

That's an idea. It doesn't seem likely that the Dwarves would try to smooth stone walls they couldn't reach, so Gollum likely found plenty of hand-holds. My question is: was the Ring enough of a lure for Gollum to try climbing on a (presumably) sheer rockface over a nearly infinite chasm? Wouldn't he try some other way first?

The orcs leave Moria, so there must be alternate ways to cross the chasm. And though Gollum can climb like a spider, he still would need a path between the two sides of the chasm (i.e. he cannot jump across).

[Findegil]

Even so, I don't believe that was his way, there was water at the bottom of the chasam and we know the Gollum could swim.

Respectfuly
Findegil

[Lastande Took]

So Gollum climbed down the side of the chasm at the Bridge of Khazad-dum, swam across the water at the bottom, and climbed up the other side?